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Old 01-12-2006, 05:48 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Zeichman
Are there any speeches in Acts (not that I'm convinced of its accuracy) that even mention the empty tomb?
Yes and placed in the mouth of Paul no less:

"and when they did complete all the things written about him, having taken [him] down from the tree, they laid him in a tomb;" (Acts 13:29, YLT)
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Old 01-13-2006, 09:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Amaleq13
It was not impossible for a crucifixion victim's family to be allowed to take the body for a proper burial. IIRC, Josephus tells us this.
So does the image linked below. The nail was driven through the ankle into a knot in the olive wood. The body was given to the family (presumably after a hefty bribe) but the nail was stuck in the knot, so the body was buried with knot and nail.

http://images.google.com/images?q=cr...=Search+Images

P.S. I don't know how to fashion a link. I've noticed that some of the book titles I've mentioned have been edited so that they link. I would appreciate an e-mail that gives me verrry, simple (6th grade reading level & vocabulary) 1-2-3-type instructions in how to do this.
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by guy_683930
That was one of the turning points for me in my disbelief. When I realized that the vast majority of arguments Christian apologists use are fallacious.
I take it you mean arguments like the following? At the time this was written, it was considered pretty convincing.

It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the “pillar and ground� of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars, breathing out immortality on every side, and vivifying men afresh. From which fact, it is evident that the Word, the Artificer of all, He that sitteth upon the cherubim, and contains all things, He who was manifested to men, has given us the Gospel under four aspects, but bound together by one Spirit.
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Bk III, XI,8
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Old 01-13-2006, 11:52 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Half-Life
The Apostles were proclaiming Jesus' resurrection from the empty tomb just WEEKS after it happened. It really is absurd to think that they would get away with this without someone asking, "Where is this tomb?" You CANNOT, I repeat CANNOT found a religion with thousands of churches and historical documents from the first century that argue for Jesus without something actually happening. Where are the churchs for Poseidon and Osiris now?
Belief in the resurrection was very early on (e.g. Paul), but the details need not be early at all. When one is telling a story, the "unknowns" tend to get filled in by the storyteller, just as some shaggy dog jokes get elaborated. The Infancy Gospels filled in details for people who wanted to know more than the zilch Matthew and Luke told about the young Jesus.

As to how a resurrection belief could have started:

Two missionary disciples are walking down a dusty road, several days journey north of Jerusalem, when they come upon two others resting on the verge.

"What's happening in Jerusalem these days? We've been on the road for weeks."

"Then you haven't heard, our Lord was crucified on Passover last week. All the disciples have fled to Galilee."

"How can that be? We were healing and casting out demons in his name just yesterday?!"

[Credit for this example to J.D.Crossan]
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