funinspace

A description of Codex Sinaticus (4th century) from:
http://www.skypoint.com/%7Ewaltzmn/M...tsUncials.html

Location/Catalog Number
The entire New Testament portion, plus part of the Old and the non-Biblical books, are in London, British Museum Add. 43725. A handful of Old Testament leaves are at Leipzig. Originally found at Saint Catherine's Monastery on Mount Sinai, hence the name "Codex Sinaiticus." A few stray leaves of the codex apparently remain at Sinai. is the famous Sinaiticus, the great discovery of Constantine von Tischendorf, the only complete copy of the New Testament prior to the ninth century.

Contents
presumably originally contained the complete Greek Bible plus at least two New Testament works now regarded as non-canonical: Barnabas and the Shepherd of Hermas. As it stands now, we have the New Testament complete (all in London; 148 leaves or 196 pages total), plus Barnabas and Hermas (to Mandate iv.3.6). Of the Old Testament, we have about 250 leaves out of an original total of some 550. Apart from the portions still at Sinai (which are too newly-found to have been included in most scholarly works), the Old Testament portion cconsists of portions of Gen. 23, 24, Numbers 5-7 (these first portions being cut-up fragments found in the bindings of other books), plus, more or less complete, 1 Ch. 9:27-19:17, 2 Esdras (=Ezra+Nehemiah) 9:9-end, Esther, Tobit, Judith, 1 Maccabees, 4 Maccabees (it appears that 2 and 3 Maccabees never formed part of the text), Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lament. 1:1-2:20, Joel, Obadiah, Jonah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach, Job.

Date/Scribe
Dated paleographically to the fourth century. It can hardly be earlier, as the manuscript contains the Eusebian Canons from the first hand. But the simplicity of the writing style makes a later dating effectively impossible.

DK

Steven Carr

They don't contain what Christians today call the New Testament.

A) Vaticanus is incomplete
B) Sinaiticus has extra books.

philbo

Holy circular logic Batman!

PROOF BY DUPLICATION:
1. There are lots of copies of the New Testament
2. They all say God exists
3. Therefore God exists

funinspace

At this point, then one would have to define the Xian before one could even argue about what "complete" means. The Protestants wouldn't have had this kind of "complete" until the 1500's. And which cannon, the Syrian Church w/o Revelations; RCC; Protestant; or maybe the Ethiopan? Though I am not sure what the point of the argument is...

DK

Legion

From what I've read, who destroyed the library and when is still very much a matter of debate.

Regarding Codex Vaticanus (according to Catholic Encyclopedia):

So, not complete, but most of it is there.

Regarding Codex Sinaiticus:



Where can I find some more details (solid evidence) on that?

And that as well?

Vinnie

Such is a useless argument. The texts--whether individually or collectively are attested either way. Most in one and all in another.

For canonization I would posit the Counil of Nicea. That did not happen in the 12th century.

Vinnie

shunyadragon

As far as ancient documents the bible is way down on the list. The following are a few ancient texts that are most definitely better preserved historical documents than the bible and they are older than the Bible.

(1) Gilgamesh

(2) The writings of Confucius.

(3) The writings of LaoTze

Anyone wish to add to the list.


Go with the flow the river knows.

Frank

Legion

Can you post/link some evidence for that that I can use the next time I see the "best preserved historical document" fallacy?

shunyadragon

For these three sources of ancient texts an internet search reveals many sites with very good documentation.

Gilgamesh - Is definitely the oldest known literary work in the world. Tablets of clay and stone for the text have been found from Egypt all the way to Persia and Trukey. We have almost all the text with some variations including the author or one of the first person to write it down in cuniform from older oral traditions. It contains the first known written reference to the flood.

The story is from between the second and third millennium BCE and the earliest known tablets date to about the time of the earliest known cuniform tablets at least 1700 BCE in Sumerian cuniform. The most complete version is dated from 700 BCE in the Akkadian language.

Confucius, Lao Tze and others - Chinese history at the time of Lao Tze and Confucius was a much more stable literate world than the west. The schools established by Confucius, Lao Tze and others preserved their works well. The Age of the Pholosophers and the Classics of Chinese Literature date from about 600 BC to 150 BC and their works and lives are well documented, though embelished with some mythology. These are not vague cut and past texts. They are complete works of literature that can be dated from this period.