Magus55

[Split from the "Looking for Christian insight. " thread. (shoulda done it sooner..

Krosis GRD Moderator]

Why does the government care if you break the law?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Why does the government care if you break the law?

Laws are set up to protect others or to protect society; how do sins such as sexual fantasies harm others or society? Moreover, does the government give you the electric chair if you jaywalk?

Just two flaws I can see in the attempt at analogy.

Magus55

Gee I don't know. The Sexual fantasies of pedophiles can't be that harmful can they? And of course greed never hurts anyone. Or adultery, why should cheating on your spouse be illegal, afterall, who does it really hurt?

Postcard73

You're mixing things up here Magus. The sexual fantasies of a pedophile don't hurt anyone until they are acted upon. The same could be said for greed. I don't care if somebody thinks about being rich all the time; it's when they rob a bank that harm has been caused. Concerning adultery, how can you possibly suggest nobody gets hurt when a person cheats on their spouse? My ex-wife cheated on me, and it was the most painful thing I've ever dealt with. Not all harm is physical.

Queen of Swords

I completely agree.

Postcard73 beat me to it. Unless you think that each time a pedophile imagines sex with a child, little Susie or Billy is traumatized for life, in which case I'd like to see a connection between the fantasy and the trauma.

I know it's too much to expect evidence, but is it really such a big deal to have some connection with reality here?

I can't see any sense in your question, but it's just as senseless to make adultery illegal. The act is between consenting adults.

You'll excuse me if I find the argumentum ad smileyface somewhat unconvincing. Even a child can play around with those, after all.

Magus55

Correct, but who is more likely to become a pedophile, one who has those kind of fantasies and enjoys them, or one who avoids trying to have them? Sin also isn't just to prevent harm against each other. God is directly linked to human emotions, morals, conscience, thoughts etc. Unpure thoughts are offensive to God, since He is righteous.

For example, when people cuss or do things I consider immoral, they aren't actually hurting me, but they are extremely offensive because they go against my morals. I can't stand to hear people cuss or talk about immoral things. And i'm not even close to perfect. I can't even imagine how offensive the kind of thoughts God hears from humans are to Him. If one person, and one immoral thought makes me want to scream, imagine the offense to God when He hears every single immoral thought or unpure motive, from billions of people every second. To a Holy and Righteous being, who can't tolerate impurity, that would be extremely harsh, even though to us, most of those thoughts don't harm anyone. You are trying to compare sin solely to actions and effect on humans. God has an infinitely higher expectation and standard.

Now to the point of adultery, I was being facetious in my response. Yes adultery is incredibly harmful, yet its not illegal in the U.S., and i'm sure there are plenty of people who don't think its a big deal as long as you don't get caught (for example QoS). So is it stupid that God called adultery a sin? Do you postcard, think adultery is acceptable? QoS apparently does.

Magus55

Ah, insults from QoS. And to think, I expected higher from you.



You seriously don't see fantasies about sex with children to be immoral and impure? Especially when the stronger the fantasy and urge grows, the more likely the pedophile is to act on those fantasies? How about prevent pedophilia before it starts. If you don't have fantasies, there is nothing to act on.


A robber wants more money ( i.e greed), so he shoots up and robs a convenience store. Sin has a ripple effect QoS. Just because the actual sin seems harmless to you, doesn't mean it doesn't develop into an actual crime or offense.

And who the heck cares about the spouse who gets hurt in the process because those 2 consenting adults are too selfish to care about who they are hurting right?

winstonjen

Are you sure he isn't just extremely petty?

Then stay away from such people, but don't force them not to do it unless they are actually breaking a law.

Which is an impossible standard for us. Seems foolish to have impossible standards from our POV, wouldn't oyu think?

winstonjen

So he lets us cheat on the test, so to speak?

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
Ah, insults from QoS. And to think, I expected higher from you.

Why, Magus, I didn't realize it was an insult to agree with you. And to think, I thought you'd be pleased that I finally nodded my head to something you said.

You seriously don't see fantasies about sex with children to be immoral and impure?

Just curious - if I told you that I had domination fantasies where I saw myself being literally swept off my feet and overpowered by a dark brooding Rhett Butler type, would that be equally immoral and impure?

The point is that legally, thoughts are not crimes and therefore the law does not punish them. If someone was imagining me being tortured to death, I wouldn't like it, I'd be disgusted by it, but I wouldn't try to prosecute the person. Know why? Because I am not being hurt by someone's thoughts.

Especially when the stronger the fantasy and urge grows, the more likely the pedophile is to act on those fantasies?

Many pedophiles do not act on their fantasies. Moreover, what if the pedophile's urges can be satiated by the fantasies, meaning that he is less likely to target actual kids?

How about prevent pedophilia before it starts.

It starts in the mind. Perhaps removal of the frontal lobes would work?

If you don't have fantasies, there is nothing to act on.

If you don't have fantasies, you're not human.

A robber wants more money ( i.e greed), so he shoots up and robs a convenience store.

A regular person like me wants more money (i.e. greed) so she works harder and earns it.

Do you now realize that the same emotion/impulse can produce different effects?

Sin has a ripple effect QoS.

Everything has a ripple effect Magus.

Just because the actual sin seems harmless to you, doesn't mean it doesn't develop into an actual crime or offense.

Just because the actual fantasy seems horrible to you, doesn't mean it develops into an actual crime or offense.

And who the heck cares about the spouse who gets hurt in the process because those 2 consenting adults are too selfish to care about who they are hurting right?

Just curious - are all cheated-upon spouses equal? For instance, take this scenario : Battered wife flees abusive husband, settles down far away, meets a decent man, has sex with him. Is the husband getting hurt by her adultery? If so, can you demonstrate how? Or here's another one - man's wife disappears, has been missing for four years. He thinks she's run away, because there's no evidence of foul play. Is he supposed to remain celibate the rest of his life for fear of hurting his wife, wherever she is?

In answer to your question, adultery does not automatically equal selfishness. If you are making this assertion, please attempt to back it up.