French Prometheus

No, they're not. Actually many educated Greeks and Romans did not believe in those gods. Some of them believed that religion was necessary for keeping order in society though. Pagan Greek theological thinking was also quite simplistic. In comparison, ancient Egyptian theology was more elaborate (and I suspect early Judaism borrowed some of it like ritual circumcision and complex purity and dietary laws).

Plognark

I've noticed this as well, but there's a pretty simple explanation for it:

I've never had a wiccan, pagan, shinto, hindu or follower of the ancient greek pantheon ever try to convert me or tell me i'm a rotten sinner and that i'll "get mine" in hell while they laugh down on me in their special place next to god.
However, i've had JW's, Mormons, Christians, and Muslims tell me these things at one point or another during my life. I've had Catholics and Protestants try to convert me, and i've had friends cut all ties with me because their god is more important than their long time friends, and i've literally had holy water splashed in my face becasue someone thought I was an evil, corrupt sinner trying to taint my Ex and make her sin.

Abrahamic religions have been a rather hostile part of my life for many years, in spite of my general apathy towards religion in the past. Aparently my former apathy screamed "convert this one, he's borderline!!" to some people I would only be able to describe as deluded assholes.

However, the broad arguments against blind faith in an abrahamic religion apply perfectly well to most other religions.

Oh, and wiccans/pagans aren't actively trying to turn the U.S. into a wiccan or pagan theocracy. Many christians are, and they are having a disturbing amount of success with the current administration.

Ojuice5001

Truthie,

It's true that the conception of the Greek gods has to be modified somewhat, and one reason is that the portrayal in the myths makes them seem quite petty. Part of the answer is to consider the priesthood. The priesthood clearly thought of the gods as being serious enough to be reliable. After all, the gods protected the Empire from barbarians and maintained order in other useful ways. The writers of the myths obviously had some reason for portraying the gods the way they did, but I think the totality of Imperial history suggests another side of their personality.

BTW, Oedipus's plight isn't due to the will of the gods. It's due to fate, which is not the same thing. But fate itself is rather problematic. Is it true that fate cannot be thwarted, for good or bad, by human effort? Is it a useful belief? And how important is it for modern Roman pagans to believe in it?

Prometheus,

Ancient Rome and Greece had a lot of skeptics of the gods, true. I see skepticism and materialism as perrenial philosophies; if the gods are invisible, there's always going to be someone who prefers not to believe in invisible things. It's also perennial for another reason, which you can see in the contemporary deconverts from Wicca, Catholicism, and other miracle-rich religions. There is a tendency to put exaggerated miracles into any religion to make it more attractive to the masses. And the Greek religion was particularly guilty of this. But this tactic has a reverse effect on skeptics, making them think that the religion itself is nonsense. So in other words, I'm not bothered too much by the fact that not everyone remained faithful for a thousand years.

The ancient Greeks' dealings with the gods were among the more simple. But I think the Romans had, at least, more sophisticated rituals and a strong sense that humans and gods owed something to each other. Which are good things. I of course think that the Greek and Roman religions are two different religions inspired by the same gods, although there are Reconstructionists who disagree. But I consider myself a Roman pagan and use Roman names for the gods.

Yahzi

An even simpler reason: I've never had the above get elected to the presidency, question my status as a citizen, attempt to amend my constitution to match his religion, and bomb brown people for Jesus.

truthie

Of course it is bullcrap. That is the reason I used quotation marks .("")

truthie

There are myths were the gods are portrayed as nice and in others as evil assholes (most of the time).
That is why I wrote that people choose to view their gods however they want to, as liberal Christians depict their deity as nice by the NT, and discard the god of the OT.


No, not only faith but also free will.
Back in the Greek days there were two schools of thought. One was that your destiny was in the hands of the gods and that you could do nothing but be their puppet. :boohoo:

The people of that time believed everything good or bad was caused by the gods, and that the pain and suffering was a consequence of the gods’ wrath.
The play clearly shows the importance of including some kind of appeal to the gods since without some sort of appeal to the gods, the gods may have very well smote them (the audience) just as Zeus smote Oedipus, and that was the thinking in those days.

When you said that the belief in the Greek gods is better, I assumed that you implied that the Greek gods are nicer gods, by the description and attitudes of the gods from the myths I conclude that those gods are no better than Yahweh.

Anyway, it is Reconstructionism, and for recons the issue is irrelevant, and if there is a single band that I respect slightly under neopaganism/heathenry, it is the Recon religions for being more akin to academics, truthful, no self-promotion, not promising miracles in order to gain more converts. As well, recons seem to the ones who do their homework.

T.

0

How so?

Tangie

truthie

Harm is also physical, mental and moral.

I do find religions interesting and they do provide some benefits but all religions cause harm in one way or the other, some of them minor and others, major harms.

Despite the common violence and bigotry that has been caused in the name of certain religions.
All of them claim knowledge of absolute truth of our humanity, they cause hatred, narrow-mindedness, divisiveness, and it confuses people to believe that religious beliefs are a proven fact. They give a distorted reality to a person, which usually creates emotional stress.
(Common-sense objections, self-deception/delusion)

Pretty much, it is a form of mind control.

T.

Craigart14

I don't know what they do at other atheist sites, but at this one, people of all different beliefs or lack of same state their opinions.

For the record: I am an atheist. I don't believe in any gods. I don't believe in ghosts, demons, earth goddesses, magic, or any other supernatural critters or practices.

But it sure is nice to know that the Babe is looking down when the Red Sox come to Yankee Stadium . . .

Craig

truthie

In other words...

or vampires, self-proclaimed witches, chakra/crystal healing, angels....
(Me neither.)
What about the paranormal?

T.