Half-Life

Well once it reaches 13000, we can then see his prediction is true.

If it NEVER reaches 13000, we can say this man was lying.

Not the case with this prophecy about Israel.

God said, "I will bring you back to your nation and gather you from all nations."

This happened. How else do you explain all the Jews just "magically" going back to israel?

If this never happened, God would have been lying. but, he wasn't.

Want another big kicker prophecy? Don't say I didn't warn you as it is VERY SPECIFIC:

Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."

3. Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day
Bible passage: Isaiah 66:7-8
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: 1948
In Isaiah 66:7-8, the prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel in 1948. Isaiah describes a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years.

During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel's sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time, foreign control of the land of Israel had formally ceased, and Israel had declared its independence, and its independence was acknowledged by other nations. Modern Israel was literally was born in a single day.

Isaiah said the birth would take place before there would be labor pains. And that too is precisely what happened. A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel, which at that time was called Palestine. Within hours of the declaration of independence in 1948, Israel was attacked by the surrounding countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

When reading Isaiah 66:7-8, keep in mind that Israel's status as a sovereign nation was established and reaffirmed during the course of a single day, and that it was born of a movement called Zionism, and that its declaration of independence was not the result of a war but rather the cause of one.

Scary how perfect and true it is, isn't it? But, I'm sure you'll find another reason to twist this around and say "No no! God wasn't talking about Israel being born in a day."

OK, so which other country was born in a day then? Tell us.

Hippocampus

Ezekiel is referring to the people of the Northern kingdom (Israel), who had been deported by the Assyrians some 150 years earlier. He was wrong - they never returned.

Half-Life

So the people of Israel never returned to Israel? We all just imagined it in 1948? New one on me.

Jack the Bodiless

The re-emergence of Israel in 1948 was never prophesied, anywhere in the Bible.

All of the supposed "prophecies" of this (including those you cited) refer to the return from the BABYLONIAN EXILE (or, in some cases, the hoped-for return from the earlier Assyrian exile), and were written around this time.

Please try to check the historical context of these alleged "prophecies", and especially when they were written.

And, incidentally, numerous prophecies that Israel would be "safe forever" after this regathering failed: because the Jews were later scattered for 2000 years by the Diaspora, and their nation destroyed. Again, pay attention to the historical context rather than ripping verses out of the setting of circa 500 BC and applying them to the modern era without considering anything that has happened in between.
The same can be said of any modern nation with a specific "founding day" (e.g. the United States of America).

Half-Life

But look at Israel. British control ceased and America recognized their independence. This all happened within 24 hours.

Not the same as America. America had to be fought for for a long time before we had our day. We didn't just become a nation overnight.

Israel on the other hand, did.

Johnny Skeptic

It depends upon what God is trying to accomplish. If as John 3:16 indicates God wants as many people as possible to go to heaven, and as few people as possible to go to hell, if Jesus had accurately predicted what the names of the Roman emperors would be for the next 200 years, and their dates of birth and death, it is reasonable to assume that that would have helped God accomplish that goal.

As I said previously, "It depends upon what God is trying to accomplish. If as John 3:16 indicates God wants as many people as possible to go to heaven, and as few people as possible to go to hell, if Jesus had accurately predicted what the names of the Roman emperors would be for the next 200 years, and their dates of birth and death, it is reasonable to assume that that would have helped God accomplish that goal."

Obviously not, and if a God exists, neither do you. It is not just an issue of what God should have done, but of what he has already supposedly done. Consider the following Scriptures:

John 20:24-29

“But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

Matthew 14:28-31

“And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?”

Matthew 17:20

“And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.”

Mark 16:14

“Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.”

Hebrews 11:1

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

The preceding Scriptures emphasize the importance of faith, but strangely, the following Scriptures emphasize the importance of faith AND tangible, firsthand evidence:

Matthew 4:23-25

“And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.”

John 2:23

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.”

John 3:2

“The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”

John 10:37-38

“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

John 11:43-48

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

John 20:30-31

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. ”

Acts 14:3

“Long time therefore abode they speaking boldly in the Lord, which gave testimony unto the word of his grace, and granted signs and wonders to be done by their hands.”

1 Corinthians 15:6

“After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.”

It is up to Christians to reasonably explain why God refuses to provide additional evidence that would cause more people to love him, and to accept him. It is also up to Christians to explain why Jesus criticized Thomas for requiring tangible, firsthand evidence that he had risen from the dead, but willingly provided tangible firsthand evidence to many people who were not convinced by his words alone.

My primary position is that if a God exists, he is probably not the God of the Bible. If the universe is naturalistic, or if some other God exists who chose to mimic the ways that things would be if the universe is naturalistic, 1) all religions that have books would be spread entirely by word of mouth, which is the case 2) humans would only able to obtain food through human effort no matter what their worldview is, which is the case, 3) it would not be surprising that the percentage of women who are theists is significantly higher than the percentage of men who are theists in every culture, which is the case, 4) it would not be surprising that the percentage of elderly people who change their worldviews is much smaller than the percentage of younger people who change their worldviews, which is the case, 5) hurricanes would kill people, animals, and plants, and destroy property as if there were not any differences between them, which appears to the case, 6) all tangible benefits would indiscriminately distributed at random according to the laws of physics without any regard for a person's needs, requests, or worldview, and the only benefits that anyone could ask God for and expect to receive would be subjective spiritual/emotional benefits, which appears to be the case, 7) it would not be surprising that fossils and sediments are sorted in ways that are convenient for skeptics, and have convinced some evangelical Christian geologists that a global flood did not occur, which is the case, 8) no religious book would contain any indisputable prophecies, which is the case, and 9) it would not be surprising that 50% of the genome of chimpanzees and humans are identical, which is the case. I am defining an indisputable prophecy as a prophecy that would convince at least 60% of the people in the world that the prophecy was made by a being who might be a God, or who is not a human. An example would be a prediction of when and where a natural disaster would occur, month, day, and year. No religious book has a prophecy of that quality.

In my opinion, it is very improbable that a moral God exists who wants people to believe that he exists, and wants people to believe that they know what he wants them to do with their lives, but frequently mimics a naturalistic universe in predictable ways, or mimics some other God who chose to mimic a naturalistic universe, and always makes disputable prophecies, thereby needlessly undermining his attempts to try to convince people to believe that he exists.

Half-Life

But what would this prove?

God provided evidence to those people and some still didn't believe. They crucified him.

If God doing miracles and fulfilling prophecy was all you needed to believe in him, why did so many disbelieve in Him?

Because people are stubborn.

Now, if God came today and showed people evidence like he did back in Bible times, what would that prove? People still wouldn't believe.

We'd probably want him killed as well. Why should god waste his time just to please you?

he already did it once. I'm sorry you want him to keep showing up like some magic fairy.

Half-Life

No answer huh?

Thought so.

See? God WANTS people to believe in Him out of true love.

He doesn't want to FORCE you to KNOW he exists because that wouldn't prove anything.

You either want God in your life or you don't. Simple as that. No amount of him showing up and shouting from the mountains he is God will make people stop being stubborn and stop scoffing at him.

jesus himself said that heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will never pass away.

2,000 years later his words are still despite everyone hating Christianity and ridiculing it.

Funny, huh? But this is not "evidence" to you. Funny how that works out.

Johnny Skeptic

If a God inspired the Bible, it is reasonable to assume that he is able to do more than he has done to convince people to love and accept him than he has without unfairly interfering with their free will. Otherwise, he would not be a God. Although some people did not accept tangible, firsthand evidence, the texts say that many people did accept tangible, firsthand evidence. Consider the following Scriptures:

John 2:23

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.”

John 3:2

“The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”

John 10:37-38

“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

John 11:43-48

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

John 20:30-31

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. ”

If God provided those same kinds of evidence today, surely some people would become Christians who were not previously convinced. That is a reasonable assumption since historically, many people have accepted all kinds of outlandish religions based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that. In addition, Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce attracted a lot of followers based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, obviously, none of your arguments are valid. My primary position is that if a God exists, he is probably not the God of the Bible. If the universe is naturalistic, or if some other God exists who chose to mimic the ways that things would be if the universe is naturalistic, 1) all religions that have books would be spread entirely by word of mouth, which is the case 2) humans would only able to obtain food through human effort no matter what their worldview is, which is the case, 3) it would not be surprising that the percentage of women who are theists is significantly higher than the percentage of men who are theists in every culture, which is the case, 4) it would not be surprising that the percentage of elderly people who change their worldviews is much smaller than the percentage of younger people who change their worldviews, which is the case, 5) hurricanes would kill people, animals, and plants, and destroy property as if there were not any differences between them, which appears to the case, 6) all tangible benefits would indiscriminately distributed at random according to the laws of physics without any regard for a person's needs, requests, or worldview, and the only benefits that anyone could ask God for and expect to receive would be subjective spiritual/emotional benefits, which appears to be the case, 7) it would not be surprising that fossils and sediments are sorted in ways that are convenient for skeptics, and have convinced some evangelical Christian geologists that a global flood did not occur, which is the case, 8) no religious book would contain any indisputable prophecies, which is the case, and 9) it would not be surprising that 50% of the genome of chimpanzees and humans are identical, which is the case. I am defining an indisputable prophecy as a prophecy that would convince at least 60% of the people in the world that the prophecy was made by a being who might be a God, or who is not a human. An example would be a prediction of when and where a natural disaster would occur, month, day, and year. No religious book has a prophecy of that quality.

In my opinion, it is very improbable that a moral God exists who wants people to believe that he exists, and wants people to believe that they know what he wants them to do with their lives, but frequently mimics a naturalistic universe in predictable ways, or mimics some other God who chose to mimic a naturalistic universe, and always makes disputable prophecies, thereby needlessly undermining his attempts to try to convince people to believe that he exists.

Johnny Skeptic

If a God inspired the Bible, it is reasonable to assume that he is able to do more than he has done to convince people to love and accept him than he has without unfairly interfering with their free will. Otherwise, he would not be a God. Although some people did not accept tangible, firsthand evidence, the texts say that many people did accept tangible, firsthand evidence. Consider the following Scriptures:

John 2:23

“Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.”

John 3:2

“The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.”

John 10:37-38

“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.”

John 11:43-48

"And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him. But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done. Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation."

John 20:30-31

“And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples which are not written in this book. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. ”

If God provided those same kinds of evidence today, surely some people would become Christians who were not previously convinced. That is a reasonable assumption since historically, many people have accepted all kinds of outlandish religions based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that. In addition, Nostradamus and Edgar Cayce attracted a lot of followers based upon a lot less convincing evidence than that.

If the God of the Bible does not exist, obviously, none of your arguments are valid. My primary position is that if a God exists, he is probably not the God of the Bible. If the universe is naturalistic, or if some other God exists who chose to mimic the ways that things would be if the universe is naturalistic, 1) all religions that have books would be spread entirely by word of mouth, which is the case 2) humans would only able to obtain food through human effort no matter what their worldview is, which is the case, 3) it would not be surprising that the percentage of women who are theists is significantly higher than the percentage of men who are theists in every culture, which is the case, 4) it would not be surprising that the percentage of elderly people who change their worldviews is much smaller than the percentage of younger people who change their worldviews, which is the case, 5) hurricanes would kill people, animals, and plants, and destroy property as if there were not any differences between them, which appears to the case, 6) all tangible benefits would indiscriminately distributed at random according to the laws of physics without any regard for a person's needs, requests, or worldview, and the only benefits that anyone could ask God for and expect to receive would be subjective spiritual/emotional benefits, which appears to be the case, 7) it would not be surprising that fossils and sediments are sorted in ways that are convenient for skeptics, and have convinced some evangelical Christian geologists that a global flood did not occur, which is the case, 8) no religious book would contain any indisputable prophecies, which is the case, and 9) it would not be surprising that 50% of the genome of chimpanzees and humans are identical, which is the case. I am defining an indisputable prophecy as a prophecy that would convince at least 60% of the people in the world that the prophecy was made by a being who might be a God, or who is not a human. An example would be a prediction of when and where a natural disaster would occur, month, day, and year. No religious book has a prophecy of that quality.

In my opinion, it is very improbable that a moral God exists who wants people to believe that he exists, and wants people to believe that they know what he wants them to do with their lives, but frequently mimics a naturalistic universe in predictable ways, or mimics some other God who chose to mimic a naturalistic universe, and always makes disputable prophecies, thereby needlessly undermining his attempts to try to convince people to believe that he exists.