Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Chili · 03-30-2005, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Mat 16:28 Word has it that the people "standing here" have already died. Anyone seen the kingdom of god yet?

Jesus said that the kingdom of God is already in our midst and never said that you have to die to see it. In fact, he said some will see it before death to imply that you can't see it when you are death.

It means that those who do not 'see it' in this life will die in the unexamined life. Jesus never condemned that either and suggested that the dead just bury the dead.

John A. Broussard · 03-30-2005, 08:52 PM

I know this is an old chestnut, but isn't there solid historical data all over the place that indicates there never was a day when the sun stood still--as clearly stated in the bible?

I have the feeling that even the heathen Chinese, with their elaborate and carefull kept astronomical records, would have noticed that strange phenomenon, but all their records simply show a daily, monotonous regularity in the suns movement across the sky.

Sheshbazzar · 03-31-2005, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

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Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

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Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Word has it that the people "standing here" have already died. Anyone seen the kingdom of god yet?

Unless 'word' has it wrong, and they still have not tasted death, and have not already died.

Ozymandias · 03-31-2005, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godfather

Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Luk 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

Word has it that the people "standing here" have already died. Anyone seen the kingdom of god yet?

The use of "death" in this context might not mean physical death. A glance at John 3:16 ...

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

It is obvious that here, "eternal life" doesn't mean living an immortal life on earth. Rather, it is a continued life in Heaven. Who's to say that life and death aren't meant the same way in the passages you cited?

Chris Weimer · 03-31-2005, 08:57 PM

Sorry to be a bummer here, but the sun never moved stopped relative to us. And if we stopped (which would make the sun appear to stop) then we would all be space particles by now.

Crucifiction · 04-01-2005, 02:52 AM

If the sun "stopped" {meaning if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning}, one would have no problems finding evidence for it; as thousands of species of flowers that depended on the sun rising and setting at precise times would have totally died off.

Awmte · 04-01-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozymandias

although both the bible's stories and your gold brick story are unreasonable, neither of them can be scientifically disproved...

You can't actually "scientifically prove" anything. Science is not mathematics, it only has theories and supporting evidence for those theories. Sorry for being a pedant, but sometimes we all need to be reminded of what does and does not constitute science.

Avatar · 04-01-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

If the sun "stopped" {meaning if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning}, one would have no problems finding evidence for it; as thousands of species of flowers that depended on the sun rising and setting at precise times would have totally died off.

Not to mention the fact that the entire surface of the Earth would be reduced to a near-molten state from the energy released in the process of the Earth stopping...

spin · 04-01-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avatar

Not to mention the fact that the entire surface of the Earth would be reduced to a near-molten state from the energy released in the process of the Earth stopping...

Not to mention the fact that everything on the surface would be hurled off. Object in motion tends to stay in motion...

spin

Toto · 04-01-2005, 03:26 PM

Chili diversion split off here

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03-30-2005, 08:52 PM	#52
John A. Broussard Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 6,629	I know this is an old chestnut, but isn't there solid historical data all over the place that indicates there never was a day when the sun stood still--as clearly stated in the bible? I have the feeling that even the heathen Chinese, with their elaborate and carefull kept astronomical records, would have noticed that strange phenomenon, but all their records simply show a daily, monotonous regularity in the suns movement across the sky.

03-31-2005, 08:57 PM	#55
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Sorry to be a bummer here, but the sun never moved stopped relative to us. And if we stopped (which would make the sun appear to stop) then we would all be space particles by now.

04-01-2005, 02:52 AM	#56
Crucifiction Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The deformation age Posts: 1,809	If the sun "stopped" {meaning if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning}, one would have no problems finding evidence for it; as thousands of species of flowers that depended on the sun rising and setting at precise times would have totally died off.

04-01-2005, 03:26 PM	#60
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Chili diversion split off here

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