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02-26-2012, 09:57 PM | #361 |
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Don't hold your breath.
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02-26-2012, 10:30 PM | #362 | ||||
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As for Josephus being a prophetic historian: Quote:
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02-27-2012, 06:39 AM | #363 |
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The Canonized Pauline writings contain Extremely important clues to LOGICALLY deduce they were AFTER the Jesus story was known publicly and AFTER there were WRITINGS about the character Jesus Christ.
1. The Pauline writer claimed he was a Persecutor of Christian churches. Galatians 1 2. The Pauline writer IDENTIFIED Christians by name who were BEFORE him [Andronicus and Junia]. Romans 16 So, we see that the Pauline writer did state that there were Christians BEFORE him. Next we will NOTICE that the Pauline writer claimed the Christians PREACHED the FAITH BEFORE him. 1. The Pauline writer claimed he Persecuted the FAITH he PRESENTLY Preached. Galatians 1 Again, the Pauline writer claimed that BEFORE HIM there were Christian churches, Christians called Andronicus and Junia and Christians Preached about Jesus Christ. The Pauline writer did NOT consider himself the First Christian or the First to Preach the Christian Faith. Again, by the time the Pauline writer was ready to Preach the Christian Faith the Jesus story was ALREADY publicly known and Circulated within the Roman Empire. Now, we will see that the Pauline writer did write that there was a WRITTEN source of the Jesus story where it was WRITTEN that Jesus died for OUR SINS, was buried and resurrected on the THIRD day. Hebrew Scripture does NOT at all contain any passage where a character called Jesus DIED for the Sins of Jews and was raised from the dead on the THIRD day. 1The Pauline writer did state that Jesus DIED for OUR SINS and was raised on the THIRD day according to the Scriptures.. 1 Cor.15 And to show that the Pauline Jesus did resurrect according to Scriptures the Pauline writer wrote of SIX Post-resurrection visits to him and OVER 500 people. 1.The Pauline writer claimed he was LAST of Over 500 people to be VISITED by the Post-Resurrected Jesus. 1 Cor.15 The WRITTEN Statements of the Pauline writer are extremely comprehensive and rather easy to follow. The Pauline Letters were written AFTER the Jesus story was ALREADY COMPOSED, and AFTER there were Christians KNOWN to the Pauline writer. |
02-27-2012, 07:08 AM | #364 | ||
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And from fear of him, all of us soldiers became as dead, and were able neither to flee nor speak. And we heard the angels saying to the women who came there to see the tomb: Be not you afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus. He is not here, but is risen, as He told you before. Bend down and see the tomb where His body lay; but go and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and let them go into Galilee, for there shall they find Him. For this reason I tell you this first.Did you? |
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02-27-2012, 07:25 AM | #365 |
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AA, there is nothing unusual about the writer of Galatians acknowledging other trends in the Christ movement.
But there is no indications that Scripture referred to anything other than the Jewish Scriptures. "Paul" doesn't quote anything else. He just says that his gospel revelation is exclusive and is the true one. There were other preachers. But of course it is only in Galatians that he claims an exclusive revelation. |
02-27-2012, 07:48 AM | #366 | |
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Matthew 27:51-54The zombies look like midrash on Ezekiel 37:12-13. Ezekiel 37:12-13But there is a problem with Matthew. Here it is: They came out of the tombs after his resurrection …The problem is that the words “after his resurrection” delays the appearance of those resurrected for three days. The centurion could not have been awed by their resurrection if the resurrected dead did not leave their tombs. But he was. It looks to me like “after his resurrection” is a gloss. It looks like it was added later. It looks like it was added to bring Matthew in line with 1 Corinthians 15:20-23: 1 Corinthians 15:20-23See? According to Paul the “holy people” could not rise before Jesus. So someone tweaked Matthew. Now here’s the thing: If Paul pre-dates Matthew then why did Matthew make that mistake? But if Matthew pre-dates Paul then it all makes sense – including the gloss. Do you understand? ------------------------------------------ Also get a load of Tatian’s Diatessaron Section LII. And Jesus cried again with a loud voice, and said, My Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit. He said that, and bowed his head, and gave up his spirit. And immediately the face of the door of the temple was rent into two parts from top to bottom; and the earth was shaken; and the stones were split to pieces; and the Arabic, tombs were opened; and the bodies of many saints which slept, arose and came forth; and after his resurrection they entered into the holy city and appeared unto many. And the officer of the footsoldiers, and they that were with him who were guarding Jesus, when they saw the earthquake, and the things which came to pass, feared greatly, and praised God, and said, This man was righteous; and, Truly he was the Son of God.In Matthew the “holy people” rise from their graves after Jesus’ resurrection. But in Tatian’s Diatessaron the “holy people” rise after the earthquake. Tatian’s Diatessaron preserves the original reading of Matthew. The original reading of Matthew disagreed with Paul's "firstfruits" theology. The original reading of Matthew disagreed with Paul's "firstfruits" theology because Paul's "firstfruits" theology didn't exist when Matthew 27 was written. |
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02-27-2012, 09:05 AM | #367 |
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You cannot assume that the versions we have now for the books in the New Testament are the original edition. There were many opportunities for later scribes to go through and harmonize details like this.
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02-27-2012, 09:49 AM | #368 | |
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It is quite possible that the “after the resurrection” is a later gloss, maybe even to align with Paul. But that proves absolutely nothing about the order in which Matthew and Paul were written, and does not of itself permit you to declare Paul a “fiction” which was concocted later than the Gospels. Earl Doherty |
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02-27-2012, 09:56 AM | #369 | ||
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There is NO Hebrew Scripture that states "Jesus died for OUR SINS". There is NO Hebrew Scripture that states "Jesus was resurrected on the THIRD day. The statements made by the Pauline writer in 1 Cor 15. are BLASPHEMOUS and CONTRARY to Jewish Laws found in Hebrew Scripture. We can't be going over the same thing over and over. Either you present the evidence or stop making UNSUBSTANTIATED assertions. You ought to very well know that there is NO Hebrew Scripture that states Jesus DIED for OUR SINS and was resurrected on the THIRD day. Hebrew Scripture states that the Sacrifice of Bulls, Goats and even birds are for Atonement of Sins. The Jewish writer Josephus Corroborates that Jewish LAWS found in Hebrew Scripture requires the Sacrifice of Bulls, Goats and even birds. See Antiquities of the Jews 3.9.3 Quote:
Again and again, the Pauline writer claimed he PERSECUTED Christians and IDENTIFIED them by NAME, Andronicus and Junia. 1. But, now the Pauline writer claimed he MET THREE characters found in the Jesus stories, Peter/Cephas, James and John. Galatians 2 The written statements from the Pauline writer are EXTREMELY easy to comprehend. 1. There were Christians before Paul began to preach the Faith. 2. Paul PERSECUTED the Faith. 3. There were Christian Scriptures with a story of Jesus that he DIED for OUR SINS and resurrected on the THIRD day. 4. PAUL claimed he was in the Presence of Peter/Cephas, James, and John in Jerusalem and these characters found ONLY in CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURES. The Pauline writer, the Persecutor, gave more than enough information to show that he was NOT the first to preach the FAITH, that he was LAST to be visited by the resurrected Jesus and that he knew of Christian Scriptures. |
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02-27-2012, 10:22 AM | #370 | |
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There is simple no corroborative evidence with the NT Canon or non-apologetic sources that can show the Pauline writer was the first to preach, teach or write about a character called Jesus who supposedly died for OUR Sins and resurrected on the THIRD day. The Pauline writer did NOT ever claim he was first and placed himself LAST in a list of OVER 500 people. When Paul was ready to preach Jesus there ALREADY were Christian churches, Christian people and Christian Scripture based on the very words of the Pauline writer. ALL the books of the NT Canon that mention a character called Jesus are AFTER the Fall of the Jewish Temple c 70 CE since the very first non-apologetic sources to mention Christians was about the mid 2nd century [Lucian and Celsus] |
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