Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mung bean · 10-10-2007, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Rohl

Then, in the 1950's, the infamous Dr. Immanuel Velikovsky began his crusade against scientific and historical orthodoxy. This non-Egyptologist (he was trained as a psychologist under Jung in Vienna) was a true heretic - much in the mould of his hero, Akhenaten. With the publication of his first two books, Worlds in Collision and Ages in Chaos, he shook the scholarly world to its very foundations, stirring up a gaggle of scientists and historians to mount a savage and prolonged assault on his academic credibility. Even before publication of those first controversial books, leading American academics were threatening the withdrawal of all support and co-operation from Velikivsky's original publishers, Macmillan, who had dared to contemplate making this wayward polymath's theories available to the public. The first publisher caved in and withdrew its contract but, fortunately, Doubleday stepped into the breach to ensure that free and independent scholarship could not be so easily suppressed.

This disgraceful attempt at censure, subsequently followed by a vicious character assassination of Velikovsky with the publication of the two books soon backfired on the would-be assassins. Their widely publicised efforts helped to push both Worlds in Collision and Ages in Chaos to the top of the best-seller lists in the USA and Europe. Those academics who had tried to silence the heretic had thus inadvertantly elevated him to cult status.

Caveat: This is hand-copied, and may therefore contain mistakes

In response to your caveat I have highlighted the mistakes.

Faid · 10-10-2007, 03:16 AM

Seriously now: Does Rohl REALLY support Velikofsky's views? Doesn't he point out his absurdities about Venus etc. at least?

Because otherwise...Wow.

Dean Anderson · 10-10-2007, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faid

Seriously now: Does Rohl REALLY support Velikofsky's views? Doesn't he point out his absurdities about Venus etc. at least?

Because otherwise...Wow.

Nope.

He supports Velikovsky's timescale, and his New Chronology is designed to fit it, but he doesn't mention any of the wacky planetary stuff that is behind Velikovsky's timescale.

He does, however, point out that Velikovsky's "alter-ego" syncretism between rulers was untenable, and that it got him "deeper and deeper into trouble" (but then that's unsurprising since Rohl's New Chronology is itself a replacement for Velikovsky's syncretisms).

If you knew nothing about Velikovsky except what Rohl says about him, you would think that he had found legitimate problems with the orthodox chronology, and had generally had the right idea about how to fix it, but had just gone a bit too far with his "alter-ego" stuff.

Lucretius · 10-10-2007, 04:15 AM

Just an apology of sorts it appears that for some odd reason I read the name IMhotep yet consistently typed IMONhotep before I honestly don't know why but my fingers appear to have a mind of their own

-Jay- · 10-10-2007, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

He supports Velikovsky's timescale, and his New Chronology is designed to fit it, but he doesn't mention any of the wacky planetary stuff that is behind Velikovsky's timescale.

<...snip...>

If you knew nothing about Velikovsky except what Rohl says about him, you would think that he had found legitimate problems with the orthodox chronology, and had generally had the right idea about how to fix it, but had just gone a bit too far with his "alter-ego" stuff.

I noticed around 10 years ago that Velikovsky had a modest but enthusiastic following within some of the fundamentalist churches in my area. A co-worker presented Velikovsky to me as an "amazing way" to explain how so much of science disconfirms the Biblical accounts. IIRC, Velikovsky's planetary acrobatics were being presented in my co-worker's church as being the specific event that God used to set up all the contrary evidence that would later be used to refute the Biblical accounts. (The emphasis at that time was on the planetary garbage, though. I don't recall ever being presented with any sort of timeline material. Maybe that's in the "Advanced Apologetics" curriculum.)

regards,

NinJay

Dean Anderson · 10-10-2007, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucretius

Just an apology of sorts it appears that for some odd reason I read the name IMhotep yet consistently typed IMONhotep before I honestly don't know why but my fingers appear to have a mind of their own

You were probably confusing Imhotep with Amenhotep.

Lucretius · 10-10-2007, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Anderson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucretius

Just an apology of sorts it appears that for some odd reason I read the name IMhotep yet consistently typed IMONhotep before I honestly don't know why but my fingers appear to have a mind of their own

You were probably confusing Imhotep with Amenhotep.

Quite possibly the only other thing were the references to Imhotep being a the Priest of ON and somehow my Guiness befuddled brain from the night before stuck them together.
Altrenatively may I claim "divine inspiration " ? (Thought not

)

Keith&Co. · 10-10-2007, 06:05 AM

Maybe i'm slow.
But in reference to the title of the thread, what exactly ARE the events of Exodus?

The entire nation enslaved by the Egyptians, of course.
A foundling raised as the son of a pharoh.
Some magic.
Some plagues.
Some walking.
A water crossing.
Some drownings.
Burning bush and some lightning caligraphy.
A party.
A party-pooper.
Forty years of punishment that probably made the previous enslavement a nostalgic time of plenty.
A funeral (traditionally held to be described in writing by the guest of honor at the funeral).
Promised land.

That's a lot. I'd really like to see archaeology show that the river turned to blood or that first born cattle died a few days after all the cattle of Egypt died. Hell, even 'a nation enslaved' would be a good find. A string of sandals preserved in the mud of the Red Sea, in a line going across, would be pretty damned cool.

Is there anywhere in this thread that any of that is actually...Confirmed?

Lucretius · 10-10-2007, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

Maybe i'm slow.
But in reference to the title of the thread, what exactly ARE the events of Exodus?

The entire nation enslaved by the Egyptians, of course.
A foundling raised as the son of a pharoh.
Some magic.
Some plagues.
Some walking.
A water crossing.
Some drownings.
Burning bush and some lightning caligraphy.
A party.
A party-pooper.
Forty years of punishment that probably made the previous enslavement a nostalgic time of plenty.
A funeral (traditionally held to be described in writing by the guest of honor at the funeral).
Promised land.

That's a lot. I'd really like to see archaeology show that the river turned to blood or that first born cattle died a few days after all the cattle of Egypt died. Hell, even 'a nation enslaved' would be a good find. A string of sandals preserved in the mud of the Red Sea, in a line going across, would be pretty damned cool.

Is there anywhere in this thread that any of that is actually...Confirmed?

In a word NO
All we have is the fact that some people who were not Egyptians were enslaved in Egypt.
A statue that may or may not be of Joseph and some people died possibly of a disease and were buried in one city

Dean Anderson · 10-10-2007, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith&Co.

The entire nation enslaved by the Egyptians, of course.

We've been shown evidence that some of the slaves that the Egyptians had were Semitic. That has been asserted to be evidence that there was an entire nation of Hebrew slaves.

Quote:

A foundling raised as the son of a pharoh.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Some magic.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Some plagues.

We've been shown that if you believe Velikovsky's timeline for the Exodus, and you believe Rohl's timeline for Egypt, then in one town there was a mass burial which may or may not have been due to the plagues.

Quote:

Some walking.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

A water crossing.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Some drownings.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Burning bush and some lightning caligraphy.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

A party.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

A party-pooper.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Forty years of punishment that probably made the previous enslavement a nostalgic time of plenty.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

A funeral (traditionally held to be described in writing by the guest of honor at the funeral).

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Promised land.

No evidence yet.

Quote:

Is there anywhere in this thread that any of that is actually...Confirmed?

What? The evidence above isn't good enough for you? You must be a closed-minded cynic who has been blinded to the Truth^TM by Satan and his little wizards...

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10-10-2007, 03:16 AM	#172
Faid Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,057	Seriously now: Does Rohl REALLY support Velikofsky's views? Doesn't he point out his absurdities about Venus etc. at least? Because otherwise...Wow.

10-10-2007, 04:15 AM	#174
Lucretius Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: . Posts: 1,014	Just an apology of sorts it appears that for some odd reason I read the name IMhotep yet consistently typed IMONhotep before I honestly don't know why but my fingers appear to have a mind of their own

10-10-2007, 06:05 AM	#178
Keith&Co. Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pittsfield, Mass Posts: 24,500	Maybe i'm slow. But in reference to the title of the thread, what exactly ARE the events of Exodus? The entire nation enslaved by the Egyptians, of course. A foundling raised as the son of a pharoh. Some magic. Some plagues. Some walking. A water crossing. Some drownings. Burning bush and some lightning caligraphy. A party. A party-pooper. Forty years of punishment that probably made the previous enslavement a nostalgic time of plenty. A funeral (traditionally held to be described in writing by the guest of honor at the funeral). Promised land. That's a lot. I'd really like to see archaeology show that the river turned to blood or that first born cattle died a few days after all the cattle of Egypt died. Hell, even 'a nation enslaved' would be a good find. A string of sandals preserved in the mud of the Red Sea, in a line going across, would be pretty damned cool. Is there anywhere in this thread that any of that is actually...Confirmed?

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