Toto

No need to presume that. The data avoids the question that you asked and tried to make a case that the noncanonical literature was written in the fourth century.

Your original question:I think that Pete would deny that Nicene Christianity incorporated the best of Roman paganism or Platonic philosophy, although others would admit that it did try to incorporate elements from those systems. Pete seems to think that Constantine-sponsored Christianity was used to wipe out the pagan and Platonic philosophies.

The standard view is that Constantine altered the course of Christianity with his official sponsorship, but that he took over an existing Christian system. Pete thinks that he instructed Eusebius to invent Christianity and forge all of its documents. Pete has not persuaded anyone here of the value of this point of view.

Recognizing that Constantine altered the course of Christianity does not require the absurd idea that he forged the NT documents.

mountainman

The source evidence for the events describing Nicaean Christianity are to be found in the "Ecclesiatical Histories" of orthodox canon-following heresiologists of the 5th century, one hundred years after Nicaea. Platonic philosophy as Constantine and Eusebius found it in the 4th century books of Porphyry (which Constantine ordered to be BURNT) is described by a "Holy Trinity" of the "ONE SPIRIT SOUL". It describes a NONDUAL divinity.

This was contraverted into the Christian Holy Trinity "Father Son and Holy Mackeral" and put to service AFTER Nicaea, in describing the Christian monotheistic divinity. Augustine, much later in the 4th century, well after Nicaea, cements the incorporation of Platonic philosophy into the religion of the orthodox canon-following heresiologists. Augustine finds that "only a few words and phrases" need to be changed to bring Platonism into complete accord with Christianity. (Source)

The key difference is that the Platonists followed a nondual deity while the christians followed a monotheistic deity.



He certainly executed the head of the Platonic school Sopater c.336 CE. He certainly ordered that the books of Porphyry, the leading Platonist preserver and author of the early 4th century, were to be burnt. He states in his oration at Antioch that .... "Socrates critical quesioning ... was a menace to the state".

The thesis of Charles Freeman in his book The Closing Of The Western Mind: The Rise of Faith and the Fall of Reason (or via: amazon.co.uk) is to be found in his closing paragraph ....

Duvduv

Yes, I left out the word "not" in reference to winning favor. Sorry. The bottom line, Mountainman, if I understand correctly is as I posted previously. Now how do the writings ascribed to Justin fit in to this scenario inasmuch as they mention no named gospels and make no reference to Paul? And what about the claims of Eusebius when that book describes alternative sects? Including a Marcion?

Doug Shaver

Because it would be irrelevant to my argument.

Validity does not confer relevance.

I've read Freeman. He is no more infallible than you or Gibbon.

Avoidance of discussion, even were I guilty of it, would not constitute a presupposition. Your semantic idiosyncrasy is showing again.

Shall I rephrase, then?

Gibbon said it. You believe it, and so does Momigliano. That settles it.