Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 07-29-2010, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgreen44

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The question being asked was "Who wrote the scrolls?"

And they kind of answered the question.

The people who wrote the scrolls were NOT Christians.

That eliminates Peter, Paul and the Lord's brother.

What do you think about Robert Eisenman's book, James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls? To Eisenman, the Scrolls are historical documents written in disputes between James' school and Roman collaborators (among whom, according to Eisenman, was Paul). Eisenman identifies Josephus' Herodian Saulus who was active during the siege of Jerusalem with Paul of Tarsus. Eisenman also says that Paul might well have been the enemy of the Righteous Teacher, the Lying Spouter of the Scrolls who repudiated the Law and betrayed the covenant.

James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls by Robert Eisenman

(via: amazon.co.uk)

If you did read the book then you should tell me what you think about it.

But, I remembered that it was said during the segment that The Christians did NOT write the DSS.

And, I also can recall where even apologetic sources claimed the apostle James, or the bishop of Jerusalem was NOT the Son of Mary the supposed mother of Jesus.

Please tell me where did Eisenman get his sources?

jgreen44 · 07-29-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Please tell me where did Eisenman get his sources?

The Dead Sea Scrolls, the Clementine Recognitions and Homilies, the Apostolic Constitutions, Eusebius, the two James Apocalypses from Nag Hammadi, the Western Text of Acts and the Slavonic Josephus.

Toto · 07-29-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgreen44

What do you think about Robert Eisenman's book, James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls by Robert Eisenman (or via: amazon.co.uk)...

Eisenman's imaginative identification of the historical Jesus with the TR only works if there is an error in the carbon dating of the scrolls, or if Jesus and Paul lived around 100 BCE. I don't think anyone follows this idea any more, even Eisenman.

arnoldo · 07-29-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles

Did anyone watch it? I missed it. Would like to get a synopsis.

I watched parts of it while flipping through channels. A minor point of interest was that scientists were examining the bones of goat DNA found near the site to determine if it matched some of the parchment's DNA made of goat skins. IIRC, scientists were also testing the ink made to write some of the DSS to determine if it matched nearby water sources. Supposedly this was to attempt to determine if the DSS were written locally or elsewhere. The following article provides some more info.

Quote:

Dead Sea Scrolls Made Locally, Tests Show

Researchers who probed tiny fragments of a Dead Sea Scroll with protons found its chemistry matches that of the water in the area where the ancient document was found.
http://news.discovery.com/archaeolog...s-protons.html

spin · 07-29-2010, 02:20 PM

Umm, Eisenman has nothing at all to do with this thread.

darstec · 07-29-2010, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnoldo

Quote:

Originally Posted by charles

Did anyone watch it? I missed it. Would like to get a synopsis.

I watched parts of it while flipping through channels. A minor point of interest was that scientists were examining the bones of goat DNA found near the site to determine if it matched some of the parchment's DNA made of goat skins. IIRC, scientists were also testing the ink made to write some of the DSS to determine if it matched nearby water sources. Supposedly this was to attempt to determine if the DSS were written locally or elsewhere. The following article provides some more info.

Quote:

Dead Sea Scrolls Made Locally, Tests Show

Researchers who probed tiny fragments of a Dead Sea Scroll with protons found its chemistry matches that of the water in the area where the ancient document was found.
http://news.discovery.com/archaeolog...s-protons.html

So how did they prove the water was 2000 years old?

Minimalist · 07-29-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:

But, I remembered that it was said during the segment that The Christians did NOT write the DSS.

Nor is there any reference to them whatsoever therein...which will be certain to piss off xtians totally.

meow · 07-29-2010, 06:42 PM

I prefer not to watch junk.

Strong levels of bromine are present in the atmosphere near the Dead Sea, and end up clogging everything around. This is why high levels of bromine showed up in bones in the cemetery, and this is why it shows up in the scrolls.

They've been trying to pull the goat DNA nonsense for years. See Norman Golb's article discussing this and other similar claims, some of which border on fraud. (He discusses the DNA claims on the first two pages.)

Incidentally, it's interesting that Golb isn't included in the National Geographic participants list. Is this because he discussed the DNA claims several years ago already? Perhaps they should contact Orion to get his article removed from the internet?

Minimalist · 07-30-2010, 09:43 AM

The Golb clan has something of a cloud over it...particularly when it comes to Cargill.

http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2009/03/...harges-of.html

Quote:

One scholar who has wrangled extensively with the multiple-aliased offender is Bob Cargill. A scholar at UCLA, Cargill has posted an extraordinary catalog of the campaign of this individual (be he the accused or someone else). A few hours after Cargill posted his catalog, NY police announced the arrest.

Toto · 07-30-2010, 10:40 AM

And yet - the Oriental Institute sent out a tweet with a link to the National Geographic article on the program that said "Golb vindicated?"

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07-29-2010, 02:20 PM	#15
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	Umm, Eisenman has nothing at all to do with this thread.

07-29-2010, 06:42 PM	#18
meow Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Under a Rainbow Posts: 48	I prefer not to watch junk. Strong levels of bromine are present in the atmosphere near the Dead Sea, and end up clogging everything around. This is why high levels of bromine showed up in bones in the cemetery, and this is why it shows up in the scrolls. They've been trying to pull the goat DNA nonsense for years. See Norman Golb's article discussing this and other similar claims, some of which border on fraud. (He discusses the DNA claims on the first two pages.) Incidentally, it's interesting that Golb isn't included in the National Geographic participants list. Is this because he discussed the DNA claims several years ago already? Perhaps they should contact Orion to get his article removed from the internet?

07-30-2010, 10:40 AM	#20
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	And yet - the Oriental Institute sent out a tweet with a link to the National Geographic article on the program that said "Golb vindicated?"

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