Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 05-24-2012, 12:37 PM

You obviously do know anything about jewish messianism. This is not america. "charisma" is for salesmen. Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities. Why dont you just shut your mouth and stop spreading false information. This is tge kind of stuff that keeps evangelism alive

sotto voce · 05-24-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities.

They are. They bloody crucify 'em.

No Robots · 05-24-2012, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities.

There have been a great number of

Jewish Messiah claimants, few of whom I would imagine ever had any kind of recognition from religious authorities.

Quote:

Why dont you just shut your mouth and stop spreading false information. This is tge kind of stuff that keeps evangelism alive

I'm with those who claim Christ for Judaism, and against those who separate Christ from Judaism.

Joan of Bark · 05-24-2012, 06:57 PM

Matthew 15:24 (NJB)

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I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Jesus' constant critical references to the Gentiles proves his true target audience.

stephan huller · 05-24-2012, 07:43 PM

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Jesus' constant critical references to the Gentiles proves his true target audience.

What does this have to do with whether Jesus claimed to be the messiah.

stephan huller · 05-24-2012, 07:48 PM

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I'm with those who claim Christ for Judaism, and against those who separate Christ from Judaism.

Okay, this is getting ridiculous. This is how being a messiah works. Person A claims to be the messiah AND THEN the religious authorities/sanhedrin acknowledges that claim. You can't be the messiah without the priests (later rabbis). The way around this is to get ANY religious authorities to acknowledge you as the messiah. Why didn't Jesus do even this? Answer - he wasn't even trying to be the messiah.

Read the history of Jewish messianic claimants. They always manage to get one or two idiot rabbis to go along with their claims. It's really, really, really, really, really important. Why so? Because Moses established that important things have to be established by two or three witnesses. Bottom line. The Samaritans take this to mean 'two or three signs' of Moses = Taheb. Same basic idea. It comes from Moses. This can't be changed.

Why don't you all find some other religious tradition to make believe proves Jesus was something. You can't make it work with the Jewish religion. Judaism really is cut and dry in this respect. Two or three witnesses.

spin · 05-24-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities.

They are. They bloody crucify 'em.

If they get crucified, they're obviously not messiahs. Jews get to say who's a messiah. After all it is their cultural heritage, not the cuckoo in the nest christians. Nearly 2000 years and christians still don't know what a messiah is.

mountainman · 05-24-2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Because Moses established that important things have to be established by two or three witnesses. Bottom line. The Samaritans take this to mean 'two or three signs' of Moses = Taheb. Same basic idea. It comes from Moses. This can't be changed.

It was changed for the canonical Christians - 'four witnesses' were used by the Christians.

mountainman · 05-24-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities.

They are. They bloody crucify 'em.

If they get crucified, they're obviously not messiahs. Jews get to say who's a messiah. After all it is their cultural heritage ....

The concept of equivalent terms such as "Saviour" is also Greek.

Quote:

Soter derives from the Greek epithet σωτήρ (sōtēr), meaning a saviour, a deliverer; initial capitalised Σωτήρ; fully capitalised ΣΩΤΗΡ; feminine Soteira (Σώτειρα). Soter has been used as:

as a title of Gods: Poseidon Soter, Zeus Soter, Dionysus Soter, Athena

Soteira and Hecate Soteira.

as the name of a distinct mythical figure, Soter (daimon)

any heroized leaders of Hellenistic dynasties, see hero cult:

Ptolemy I Soter
Antiochus I Soter
Demetrius I Soter
Rabbel II Soter
Attalus I
Seleucus III Ceraunus
Ptolemy IX
Diodotus I
Strato II
Strato I
Menander I
as a title of liberators (see also eleutherios)
a title of Jesus of Nazareth, most particularly in the fish acronym
Saint Soter, Pope and Martyr

Joan of Bark · 05-25-2012, 12:28 AM

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Originally Posted by stephan huller

Quote:

Jesus' constant critical references to the Gentiles proves his true target audience.

What does this have to do with whether Jesus claimed to be the messiah.

Indirectly it supports the argument, because a messiah was meant only for the Jews.

It is also a reaction to comments on the first page of this thread about the relationship between Christianity and Judaism.

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05-24-2012, 12:37 PM	#51
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	You obviously do know anything about jewish messianism. This is not america. "charisma" is for salesmen. Messiahs have to be recognized by religious authorities. Why dont you just shut your mouth and stop spreading false information. This is tge kind of stuff that keeps evangelism alive

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