ksen

Thanks Dean.

Teh internets gives me just enough info to be dangerous I guess.

gstafleu

IIRC, several mythologies have scenarios where, in a number of consecutive "ages," humanity gets more and more bad, and hence lives for a shorter period each age. For example, according to Ages_of_Man, in Hesiod's Works and Days we find that in the Golden Age "They lived to a very old age but with a youthful appearance and eventually died peacefully." But in the Silver Age "They lived only a short time as grown adults, and spent that time in strife with one another." A bit farther away from home, we find something similar in Jainism, where in successive ages humans not only live shorter and shorter times, they also get shorter and shorter in height.

Could the 120 years be a remnant of a similar myth? E.g., the patriarchs lived for a very long time?

Gerard Stafleu

Clouseau

I think it very likely indeed that the overall shortening of lifespan in the Bible is an adaptation of this existing motif. Certainly, the Biblical allegories take death itself as a consequence of loss of innocence, in Eden; but immediately thereafter, men lived to great ages, with one of them, particularly virtuous Enoch, not suffering death at all. It seems to me that, due to unaccountable floods and droughts, ancient man had a tendency to self blame; hence this motif, also the widespread deluge story in its various forms. It could be that, as human societies grew and became more sophisticated after the last Ice Age, they lost innocence, and people looked back at 'the good old days', as indeed today people of a certain vintage look back to the 1950s as an age of both providence and innocence, albeit a fleeting one.

This particular case does not seem to me to be part of this theme, as it is not reflected in the recorded lifespans of the Genesis ancients. If it was a fulfilled promise, it would represent a sharp discontinuity in what is 'actually' a generally steady reduction to the 70 years of Psalm 90 and literal lifespans. The average age of Noah's immediate descendants was around 450 years, later falling to around 240, from more than three times the span expected if the 120 years is a promise of future lifespan, to twice that number. That makes, imv, an elapsed time to the flood a more likely explanation for the 120 years (the choice of 120 being because it was a 'nice round number' in Babylonian numeration, perhaps one with ancient precedent in this sort of context, one no longer extant in literature).

The flood story being entirely allegorical, the flood may be representative of the second coming of Christ; the 120 years may represent the 'grace period' mentioned by Peter when explaining the 'failure' of Christ to return. 120 is twice the Babylonian base unit that we still have engraved on our watches and clocks- not too short, but not too long, either. That may be related to Peter's reminder of God's mercy and patience, as well as Jesus' warning that the end will come suddenly.

Cege

According to Genesis, mankind was not destroyed 120 years after the pronouncement because 8 survived and promptly began replenishing the population of mankind that had drowned.

Also according to Genesis, the lifespan of men born to Noah's sons and grandsons were not limited in years to only 120.

In neither interpretive case is the 120 years prophecy accurate.

Dean Anderson

That depends...

The J author (who wrote the 120 years bit) never has anyone live longer than 120 years - and he has Moses (the pinnacle and climactic hero of the whole story) live exactly that long whilst being fully healthy and vigorous before mysteriously dropping dead.

All the characters with longer lifespans are in the parts written by other authors (mainly P and the Book of Records) - where there is no 120 year clause.

To me, that implies that the authors intent is to indicate that 120 years is the maximum human lifespan and to show how great Moses the hero is by having him reach that limit whilst still fit and active. I think that is good contextual support for the "maximum age" interpretation of the verse over the "flood prophecy" interpretation.

Clouseau

Is that circular?

But Joshua (Jesus), who led Israel into the Promised Land, lived to 110 years. Moses' death while hale indicates his personal worthiness (he was present at Jesus' transfiguration), but the ultimate unworthiness of the Law that he transmitted, which could not lead to the true Promised Land.

ksen

I know that I started the thread with a specific question about Genesis 6:3 but since I'm the OP I don't mind if we divert a bit from the topic.

I thought I remembered reading that the Documentary Hypothesis wasn't that widely accepted anymore so I did a quick Google and got this ariticle on Wikipedia.

Here is the relevant part:

Dean Anderson

I've spent the last couple of weeks writing literally thousands of words on the Documentary Hypothesis on this (ongoing) thread. I hope you'll forgive me if I point you to there rather than repeating it all here...

ksen

I don't mind at all.

Thanks for the link. I'll go check it out.