Freethought & Rationalism Archive

TexasAWOL · 07-14-2005, 09:22 AM

You seeme bothered by my posting six(??) times about private messages?
Well, that is because I wanted to discuss Water of Life Church with people that went there- and they are just that- private discussions where people share intimate facts- like their REAL identity, which is NOT suitable nor safe for public internet knowledge.

People have a right to their privacy- and if it bothered you that I "pm"=ed people, I am sorry- but the reason I did that, was to connect with people that I actually found out I KNEW from that Church.

If you choose to use sarcasm with me, accuse me of not ever going to that church, etc- that's your perogative.

But Doyle Davidson, HAS publicly stated, on TV, that JR WILL DIE, and that Doyle himself has "turned JR and Travis (JR's Son) over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh".... he actually thinks he has the authority to do this.... well, he is NOT the Apostle Paul, and I Cor 5:5 is talking about incest within the church.... it's NOT a verse to be used by Doyle to throw out, to say to people that he thinks "come against him".

If you think it's ok for Doyle to covet another man's wife- then go ahead- and if it makes you feel better to take pot shots at me, for private messaging some people on this forum, that I find out I actually KNOW- then so be it.

You may attack me all you like- but in your own words: I won't lose any sleep over it either....

You can say you are neither defending Doyle nor are you against him.

I am not against him- I am against what he teaches: saying another man's wife is HIS wife- and that the Body of Christ does NOT need a divorce from the State of Texas, to take another wife....

Yes- he DID say that- on TV.

That's why Doyle calls Lisa Staton, Lisa Davidson.

He thinks he has the authority to call the Staton's marriage "null and void"---
Jesus said, what God has joined together, let no man put asunder- yet DD thinks he has the right to PUT ASUNDER that Staton's marriage?

This is my last post to you, James.... like Lost Lenora said, YOU have not been through what some of us have been through....

God bless you.

LostLenore · 07-14-2005, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james r

i have personally benefitted from the bible that has been put out over the years from this place. i have NOT benefitted from most of the other stuff that is on tv these days. i am real sorry you have been bible belted. this seems to churn in you because you want justice. i hope you get some mercy. i hope you all get some mercy. even if you dont believe in a "god" or some omniscient being, i hope, that when your case comes up, wherever it may be, that you get mercy. that you dont get what you deserve, but , you get mercy. and i hope i dont get what i deserve, but get mercy.be well, have a nice day.

BibleBelted is right, do you even read our debates? You seem to go off on a completely different subject everytime we try to get an answer out of you. Are these discussions just way over your head? You say you have benefited from the bible teachings of Davidson, if you agree with him and/or his message, then this puts you in the same class as his followers.
Water of Life is a great outlet for a closet misogynist to participate in. You can live vicarioulsy through Doyle's hateful beratings of women, and how they have caused all of the problems in your life. According to Doyle, women are responsible for every disaster since the beginning of time! You fit the classic profile of a WOL member; ill-educated middle age divorce' looking to unload your bitterness on the female sex, I've seen hundreds just like you sitting in "those blue chairs."
Davidson is a lecherous old curmudgeon, a miserable human being whose ministry of hate and control has injured thousands. If this is someone you claim you have prospered from by his instruction, then the kind of person you are speaks for itself.

TexasAWOL · 07-14-2005, 10:47 AM

LL- I sent you a private message....

Oh... it's juicy and private! LOL! just kidding ya!

james r · 07-14-2005, 11:24 AM

sorry , but i dont blame any woman for any problems i have ever had. you dont even know me. how can you allude to anything like that? i have never said anything even remotely about women. just quoted what the bible is worded about it. seems like you are lashing out at men here, saying that someone you dont even know is of a particular slant. i was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car that says : "just say no to women preachers". does that make me a mysoginist? i dont think so, but you might. stay right there in your own mind about everyone else. sounds like you have your mind made up about alot of things. i hope you are happy. everybody is not the same. i like living in this country, because i have learned not to lump all people in all categories. i feel a lot freer that way. and AWOL, i just thought it was funny that you posted six times in a row that you were send someone a private message, like you were watching out for them because someone was posting here that didnt agree with everything you said. you said that was your last post to me, i hope that is a promise. i respect both of you and your views on this, but we just dont have to agree. i dont have to be on either side of this to still be a real person. this is not some debated argument that anyone is going to win. i am not homosexual, i cannot judge anyone who is homosexual, let god deal with them, i cannot agree with many people in this country who judge them. but i still may agree with those people on biblical things. does that make any sense to you?

james r · 07-14-2005, 11:31 AM

there was a guy in the 80's in tulsa, his name was roberts liardon (pronounced leerdon) he was very young, said he had a ministry, wrote a book called "god's generals", it was about all the christian leaders from the 1800's to now. he was married, but it came out he had an ongoing affair with a man. he stepped down got out of the ministry. but some people in california still wanted him to keep on and move out there. i dont know what happened to him. i cant judge the guy. who am i? god will judge/correct/ take care of doyle davidson and any one else. if they hurt anyone i geuss this same god is going to have to right that wrong. i am quite content with my views about this whole thing. if doyledavidson dies in the pulpit, i geuss you can feel more "right". if he doesnt, and keeps moving on i hope i dont feel more "right". i dont want to live in that kind of a place. let god sort it out. but you just go ahead and do your thing. let me do mine.

LostLenore · 07-14-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james r

sorry , but i dont blame any woman for any problems i have ever had. you dont even know me. how can you allude to anything like that? i have never said anything even remotely about women. just quoted what the bible is worded about it. seems like you are lashing out at men here, saying that someone you dont even know is of a particular slant. i was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car that says : "just say no to women preachers". does that make me a mysoginist? i dont think so, but you might. stay right there in your own mind about everyone else. sounds like you have your mind made up about alot of things. i hope you are happy. everybody is not the same. i like living in this country, because i have learned not to lump all people in all categories. i feel a lot freer that way. and AWOL, i just thought it was funny that you posted six times in a row that you were send someone a private message, like you were watching out for them because someone was posting here that didnt agree with everything you said. you said that was your last post to me, i hope that is a promise. i respect both of you and your views on this, but we just dont have to agree. i dont have to be on either side of this to still be a real person. this is not some debated argument that anyone is going to win. i am not homosexual, i cannot judge anyone who is homosexual, let god deal with them, i cannot agree with many people in this country who judge them. but i still may agree with those people on biblical things. does that make any sense to you?

No one is looking to win a debate here. We are here to share our thoughts and experiences of what we have personally witnessed of DD and his ministry.

How did we get on the topic of homosexuality? Your example of judging pertains to none of these debates.

LostLenore · 07-14-2005, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james r

sorry , but i dont blame any woman for any problems i have ever had. you dont even know me. how can you allude to anything like that? i have never said anything even remotely about women. just quoted what the bible is worded about it. seems like you are lashing out at men here, saying that someone you dont even know is of a particular slant. i was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car that says : "just say no to women preachers". does that make me a mysoginist? i dont think so, but you might. stay right there in your own mind about everyone else. sounds like you have your mind made up about alot of things. i hope you are happy. everybody is not the same. i like living in this country, because i have learned not to lump all people in all categories. i feel a lot freer that way. and AWOL, i just thought it was funny that you posted six times in a row that you were send someone a private message, like you were watching out for them because someone was posting here that didnt agree with everything you said. you said that was your last post to me, i hope that is a promise. i respect both of you and your views on this, but we just dont have to agree. i dont have to be on either side of this to still be a real person. this is not some debated argument that anyone is going to win. i am not homosexual, i cannot judge anyone who is homosexual, let god deal with them, i cannot agree with many people in this country who judge them. but i still may agree with those people on biblical things. does that make any sense to you?

How can I "allude" to anything like that? The words I used to describe you have been derived from the vein of your postings. "i can only say that a woman can really mess things up for many people", and then at a feeble attempt to cover up your misogynistic statement: "so can a man." "he says: the reason he has a controversy with everyone is the bible teaches that a wife has to submit to her husband, man is the head of a woman as christ is the head of the man, and christ is the head of church."
It is so obvious, just in you quoting this man and admitting that you listen to his teachings and follow his ministry; easily qualifies you as a misogynist! You are a middle aged divorced man who has very poor writing and debating skills. I'm not personally attacking you, but your responses are illegible and incoherent. My surmise of your poor education has been highlighted here by others.
WOL members share these characteristics that you have displayed, I have personally known people like this and they are all loyal followers of DD. DD discourages education, he calls all science false, and adolescents under his ministry are discouraged to seek higher education after the 12th grade. DD constantly reiterates that the bible is written on a 5th grade level, and that is all the education you need. Just enough to be a mindless lemming and follow his pied piper teachings.
Poorly educated people flock to his ministry because it is so much easier to ride the coat tails of someone who you "think" is educated, rather than having to do the work yourself.

"I was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car that says: "just say no to women preachers." ???? :huh: Why do you have such a problem with a female pastor? So, you "have never said anything remotely about women?" Unlike you JamesR, I read and comprehend all posts!

P.S. If you want to continue quoting what the bible says about women, you might want to find another discussion forum. In case you have not noticed; not that I don't trust your wonderful observation skills, but this is an atheistic debate site. :devil3:

BibleBelted · 07-14-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheried3

... at one point, we were comtemplating getting some counseling to deal w/our relationship... at the next "meeting" a prophet in the church told my husband he was to marry a woman there (God told him he wanted him to marry her) he didn't even know yet.... so that ended any hope of reuniting our family.... this is true. That woman split not too far into the marriage and I hear she (wisely) left the state. But this marriage was set up to prevent my influence re-entering his life and possible breaking the hold DD had over him... So he (my former) was safely sheltered and back under DD's control...

Good Grief! What an awful experience that must have been. I had no idea this lunatic has been causing so much grief for so long. I went back and re-read your first post - I have to admit I was too shocked by it the first time to respond. Some things are so disturbing you don't even want to acknowledge they exist -- like the snakes and spiders that squirm and slither around inside Dink Davidson's skull.

I did some more searching on cult leaders, and found this Excerpt from Captive Hearts, Captive Minds_ by Madeleine Tobais and Janja Lalich

I won't post the whole thing, but more than a couple of things stand out:

Quote:

2. Manipulative and Conning

Cult leaders do not recognize the individuality or rights of others, which makes all self-serving behaviors permissible. The hallmark of the psychopath is the _psychopathic maneuver_, which is essentially interpersonal manipulation "based on charm. The manipulator appears to be helpful, charming, even ingratiating or seductive, but is covertly hostile, domineering... [The victim] is perceived as an aggressor, competitor, or merely an instrument to be used ... The manipulation inevitably becomes the end-all and is no longer qualified by the reality principle." In other words, there are no checks on the psychopath's behavior -- anything goes.

The psychopath divides the world into suckers, sinner, and himself. He discharges powerful feelings of terror and rage by dominating and humiliating his victims. He is particularly successful when, through an overlay of charm, he makes an ally of his victim -- a process sometimes described as emotional vampirism or emotional terrorism.

3. Grandiose Sense of Self

The cult leader enjoys tremendous feelings of entitlement. He believes everything is owed to him as a right. Preoccupied with his own fantasies, he must always be the center of attention. He presents himself as the "Ultimate One": enlightened, a vehicle of god, a genius, the leader of humankind, and sometimes the most humble of the humble. He has an insatiable need for adulation and attendance. His grandiosity may also be a defense against inner emptiness, depression, and a sense of insignificance. Paranoia often accompanies the grandiosity, reinforcing the isolation of the group and the need for protection against a perceived hostile environment. In this way, he creates an us-versus-them mentality.

...

5. Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

At the core of the psychopath is a deep-seated rage which is split off and repressed. Some researchers theorize that this is caused by feeling abandoned in infancy or early childhood. Whatever the emotional or psychological source, psychopaths see those around them as objects, targets, or opportunities, not people. They do not have friends, they have victims and accomplices -- and the latter frequently end as victims. For psychopaths the ends always justify the means. Thus there is no place for feelings of remorse, shame, or guilt. Cult leaders feel justified in all their actions since they consider themselves the ultimate moral arbiter. Nothing gets in their way.

6. Shallow Emotions

While they may display outbursts of emotion, more often than not they are putting on a calculated response to obtain a certain result. They rarely reveal a range of emotions, and what is seen is superficial at best, pretended at worst. Positive feelings of warmth, joy, love, and compassion are more feigned than experienced. They are unmoved by things that would upset the normal person, while outraged by insignificant matters. They are bystanders to the emotional life of others, perhaps envious and scornful of feelings they cannot have or understand. In the end, psychopaths are cold, with shallow emotions, living in a dark world of their own.

Hiding behind the "mask of sanity," the cult leader exposes feelings only insofar as they serve an ulterior motive. He can witness or order acts of utter brutality without experiencing a shred of emotion. He casts himself in a role of total control, which he plays to the hilt. What is most promised in cults -- peace, joy, enlightenment, and security -- are goals that are forever out of reach of the leader, and thus also the followers. Since the leader is not genuine, neither are his promises.

7. Incapacity for Love

As the "living embodiment of God's love," the leader is tragically flawed in being unable to either give or receive love. Love substitutes are given instead. The leader's tremendous need to be loved is accompanied by an equally strong disbelief in the love offered him by his followers; hence, the often unspeakably cruel and harsh testing of his devotees. Unconditional surrender is an absolute requirement.

...

9. Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Psychopaths readily take advantage of others, expressing utter contempt for anyone else's feelings. Someone in distress is not important to them. Although intelligent, perceptive, and quite good at sizing people up, they make no real connections with others. They use their "people skills" to exploit, abuse, and wield power. Psychopaths are unable to empathize with the pain of their victims.

10. Poor Behavioral Controls / Impulsive Nature

Like small children, many psychopaths have difficulty regulating their emotions. Adults who have temper tantrums are frightening to be around. Rage and abuse, alternating with token expressions of love and approval, produce an addictive cycle for both abuser and abused, as well as create a sense of hopelessness in the latter.

The cult leader acts out with some regularity -- often privately, sometimes publicly -- usually to the embarassment and dismay of his followers and other observers. He may act out sexually, aggressively, or criminally, frequently with rage. Generally this aberrant behavior is a well-kept secret, known only to a few disciples. The others see only perfection.

...

12. Irresponsibility / Unreliability

Not concerned about the consequences of their behavior, psychopaths leave behind them the wreckage of others' lives and dreams. They may be totally oblivious or indifferent to the devestation they inflict on others, something which they regard as neither their problem nor their responsibility.

Psychopaths rarely accept blame for their failures or mistakes. Scapegoating is common, blaming followers, those outside the group, a member's family, the government, Satan -- anyone and everyone but the leader. The blaming may follow a ritualized procedure such as a trial, "hot seat" denunciation, or public confession. Blame is a powerful reinforcer of passivity and obedience, producing guilt, shame, terror, and conformity in the followers.

13. Promiscuous Sexual Behavior / Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, polygamy, rape, and sexual acting out of all sorts are frequently practiced by cult leaders. Conversely, there is often stringent sexual control of the followers through such tactics as enforced celibacy, arranged marriages, forced breakups and divorces, removal of children from their parents, forced abortions or mandated births. For psychopaths, sex is primarily a control and power issue.

Marital fidelity is rare in the psychopath's life. There are usually countless reports of extramarital affairs and sexual predation upon adult and child members of both sexes. The sexual behavior of the leader may be kept hidden from all but the inner circle or may be part of accepted group sexual practices. In any case, [/b]due to the power imbalance between leader and followers, sexual contact is never truly consensual and is likely to have damaging consequences for the follower.[/b]

**emphasis mine**

From the little I've seen, this fits Dink's modus operandi pretty close.

Oh, I'm not certain of this, but I think Dink's daughter has also fled the scene -- though her husband, the AKSIL , continues to remain faithful (he gets to be play Worship Leader). Now that is one woman who should probably get some counseling. The years of abuse she must have endured, and years of listening to her father berate and belittle her mother -- how could she have a shred of self-esteem left.

You did the right thing to get away, Cherie. I hope your children weren't too damaged by this monster.

BibleBelted · 07-14-2005, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostLenore

DD discourages education, he calls all science false, and adolescents under his ministry are discouraged to seek higher education after the 12th grade. DD constantly reiterates that the bible is written on a 5th grade level, and that is all the education you need. Just enough to be a mindless lemming and follow his pied piper teachings.

Well, that sews it up for me. He's a True (fundie) Christian, alright. I once heard him make some claim of getting a "revelation" that all medicine is "sorcery." This is kind of shocking from somebody who claims they were once one of the world's great veterinarians .. and whose sister (that had once been his wife) had died after years of ... well, I'll let Dink tell it himself:

Quote:

In February 2003, my wife, Patti Davidson, went to be with the Lord on Thursday, February 6th, at approximately 1:15 p.m. after nine years of reoccurring illnesses. The preceding Tuesday, she had fallen and fractured her hip. Surgery to replace her hip had been scheduled, but she passed away peacefully before the surgery with me and our daughter, Kathy, at her side.

from here: Dink's autohagiography

Dink may need to go back and edit his biography, because he fails to mention that God had changed Patti from his wife to his sister back in the '80s, just before JR and Lisa joined the church, I think.

Obviously, an oversight.

You know what really creeps me out? As I'm typing this, I'm listening to the Holy Pigsack John Hagee ranting about demons and other holy BS in the background, and he sounds just as insane and manipulative, and must have at least 10 times the sycophantic followers, that the pipsqueak Dink has.

cheried3 · 07-14-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BibleBelted

Good Grief! What an awful experience that must have been. I had no idea this lunatic has been causing so much grief for so long. I went back and re-read your first post - I have to admit I was too shocked by it the first time to respond. Some things are so disturbing you don't even want to acknowledge they exist -- like the snakes and spiders that squirm and slither around inside Dink Davidson's skull.

You did the right thing to get away, Cherie. I hope your children weren't too damaged by this monster.

I am sad to say it has impacted my children horribly... they are still dealing w/the backlash of psycho BS they were put thru, one didn't make it and was killed in 97 (My ex actually had the audacity to chastise me for grieving..."how selfish, he is w/the Lord!" ... I have suffered w/loads of guilt for not removing them from that situation sooner.... it is unbelievable how long I held onto hope in such a hopeless situation. Unfortunately my kids suffered for it. How to live w/this? I stuggle w/it as they still struggle. Trying to build their self esteem (and mine)... it is sm an ongoing healing process.

07-14-2005, 09:22 AM	#101
TexasAWOL Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 165	Dear James R: You seeme bothered by my posting six(??) times about private messages? Well, that is because I wanted to discuss Water of Life Church with people that went there- and they are just that- private discussions where people share intimate facts- like their REAL identity, which is NOT suitable nor safe for public internet knowledge. People have a right to their privacy- and if it bothered you that I "pm"=ed people, I am sorry- but the reason I did that, was to connect with people that I actually found out I KNEW from that Church. If you choose to use sarcasm with me, accuse me of not ever going to that church, etc- that's your perogative. But Doyle Davidson, HAS publicly stated, on TV, that JR WILL DIE, and that Doyle himself has "turned JR and Travis (JR's Son) over to Satan for the destruction of their flesh".... he actually thinks he has the authority to do this.... well, he is NOT the Apostle Paul, and I Cor 5:5 is talking about incest within the church.... it's NOT a verse to be used by Doyle to throw out, to say to people that he thinks "come against him". If you think it's ok for Doyle to covet another man's wife- then go ahead- and if it makes you feel better to take pot shots at me, for private messaging some people on this forum, that I find out I actually KNOW- then so be it. You may attack me all you like- but in your own words: I won't lose any sleep over it either.... You can say you are neither defending Doyle nor are you against him. I am not against him- I am against what he teaches: saying another man's wife is HIS wife- and that the Body of Christ does NOT need a divorce from the State of Texas, to take another wife.... Yes- he DID say that- on TV. That's why Doyle calls Lisa Staton, Lisa Davidson. He thinks he has the authority to call the Staton's marriage "null and void"--- Jesus said, what God has joined together, let no man put asunder- yet DD thinks he has the right to PUT ASUNDER that Staton's marriage? This is my last post to you, James.... like Lost Lenora said, YOU have not been through what some of us have been through.... God bless you.

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07-14-2005, 10:47 AM	#103
TexasAWOL Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: TEXAS Posts: 165	LL- I sent you a private message.... Oh... it's juicy and private! LOL! just kidding ya!

07-14-2005, 11:24 AM	#104
james r Banned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: kansas Posts: 43	sorry , but i dont blame any woman for any problems i have ever had. you dont even know me. how can you allude to anything like that? i have never said anything even remotely about women. just quoted what the bible is worded about it. seems like you are lashing out at men here, saying that someone you dont even know is of a particular slant. i was thinking about putting a bumper sticker on my car that says : "just say no to women preachers". does that make me a mysoginist? i dont think so, but you might. stay right there in your own mind about everyone else. sounds like you have your mind made up about alot of things. i hope you are happy. everybody is not the same. i like living in this country, because i have learned not to lump all people in all categories. i feel a lot freer that way. and AWOL, i just thought it was funny that you posted six times in a row that you were send someone a private message, like you were watching out for them because someone was posting here that didnt agree with everything you said. you said that was your last post to me, i hope that is a promise. i respect both of you and your views on this, but we just dont have to agree. i dont have to be on either side of this to still be a real person. this is not some debated argument that anyone is going to win. i am not homosexual, i cannot judge anyone who is homosexual, let god deal with them, i cannot agree with many people in this country who judge them. but i still may agree with those people on biblical things. does that make any sense to you?

07-14-2005, 11:31 AM	#105
james r Banned Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: kansas Posts: 43	there was a guy in the 80's in tulsa, his name was roberts liardon (pronounced leerdon) he was very young, said he had a ministry, wrote a book called "god's generals", it was about all the christian leaders from the 1800's to now. he was married, but it came out he had an ongoing affair with a man. he stepped down got out of the ministry. but some people in california still wanted him to keep on and move out there. i dont know what happened to him. i cant judge the guy. who am i? god will judge/correct/ take care of doyle davidson and any one else. if they hurt anyone i geuss this same god is going to have to right that wrong. i am quite content with my views about this whole thing. if doyledavidson dies in the pulpit, i geuss you can feel more "right". if he doesnt, and keeps moving on i hope i dont feel more "right". i dont want to live in that kind of a place. let god sort it out. but you just go ahead and do your thing. let me do mine.

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