Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 02-28-2012, 12:13 AM

Grumpy Jesus and a pagan swimming pool.

An interesting blog article where Jesus and the traditional healing god of the Egypto/Graeco/Roman empire, Ascelpius, square off at Bethesda. No matter where Jesus or the apostles travelled they would have found Asclepius. The archaeological remains are abundant inside and even outside the Roman Empire of the first 3 or 4 centuries of the common era.

Quote:

John 5:1-15 tells the story of a paralyzed man healed by Jesus at a pool called Bethesda. It’s one of the most bizarre healing stories in the gospels, for a number of reasons.

First, the setting. The pool of Bethesda was located just north of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem. People started coming here about 150 years before Jesus was born, convinced the waters of Bethesda possessed healing properties. The pool still drew a crowd in Jesus’ day:

Here a great number of disabled people used to lie — the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. (John 15:4)

What’s unusual about this miracle is that Bethesda was a place of healing. Most of Jesus’ miracles happen in far more ordinary places: houses, streets, synagogues, hillsides.

So why does Jesus come to a place of healing to do some healing of his own?

outhouse · 02-28-2012, 09:06 AM

these passages in scripture or fictional accounts to deify a mortal man, nothing more.

People will get behind and follow a deity with power, not a man. The scriptures purpose is to make jesus more powerful then some of the roman deities

Diogenes the Cynic · 02-29-2012, 11:08 AM

I would like to see a better connection drawn between Asclepius and Bethesda than what the author offers up.

outhouse · 02-29-2012, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I would like to see a better connection drawn between Asclepius and Bethesda than what the author offers up.

im not sure but this is about as good as it gets

Some scholars have suggested that the narrative is actually part of a deliberate polemic against the Asclepius cult, an antagonism possibly partly brought on by the fact that Asclepius was worshipped as Saviour (Greek: Soter), in reference to his healing attributes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Bethesda

I think Ben has his timing off a bit, there really isnt any proof the pool was first Built for Asclepius, ony after mid first century do we start getting it named after renovation

Diogenes the Cynic · 02-29-2012, 01:46 PM

I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

outhouse · 02-29-2012, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

it was after the temple was destroyed that it was hellenized

Chili · 02-29-2012, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

It was the Sheep Pool of John 5 with 5 porticoes for sick men and it had 'moving water,' I suppose to teach sheep how to swim in the desert.

outhouse · 02-29-2012, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

It was the Sheep Pool of John 5 with 5 porticoes for sick men and it had 'moving water,' I suppose to teach sheep how to swim in the desert.

many scholars question it ever being used for sheep due to its depth

mountainman · 03-01-2012, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I would like to see a better connection drawn between Asclepius and Bethesda than what the author offers up.

im not sure but this is about as good as it gets

Some scholars have suggested that the narrative is actually part of a deliberate polemic against the Asclepius cult, an antagonism possibly partly brought on by the fact that Asclepius was worshipped as Saviour (Greek: Soter), in reference to his healing attributes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Bethesda

I think Ben has his timing off a bit, there really isnt any proof the pool was first Built for Asclepius, ony after mid first century do we start getting it named after renovation

The following from the WIKI link:

Quote:

In the 1st century BC, natural caves to the east of the two pools were turned into small baths, as part of an asclepieion;[23][26] however, the Mishnah implies that at least one of these new pools was sacred to Fortuna,[27] the goddess of fortune, rather than Asclepius, the god of healing.[28] Scholars think it likely that this development was founded by the Roman garrison of the nearby Antonia Fortress,[23] who would also have been able to protect it from attack[26] the location of the asclepieion, outside the then city walls, would have made its presence tolerable to the Jews, who might otherwise have objected to a non-Jewish religious presence in their holy city.[26]

In the mid 1st century AD, Herod Agrippa expanded the city walls, bringing the asclepieion into the city. When Hadrian rebuilt Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina, he placed a roadway along the dam, and expanded the asclepieion into a large temple to Asclepius and Serapis.[23] In the Byzantine era, the asclepieion was converted to a church

Chili · 03-01-2012, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

It was the Sheep Pool of John 5 with 5 porticoes for sick men and it had 'moving water,' I suppose to teach sheep how to swim in the desert.

many scholars question it ever being used for sheep due to its depth

Good for them.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-28-2012, 09:06 AM	#2
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	these passages in scripture or fictional accounts to deify a mortal man, nothing more. People will get behind and follow a deity with power, not a man. The scriptures purpose is to make jesus more powerful then some of the roman deities

02-29-2012, 11:08 AM	#3
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	I would like to see a better connection drawn between Asclepius and Bethesda than what the author offers up.

02-29-2012, 01:46 PM	#5
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	I find it hard to believe there would be a pool for Asclepius that close to the Temple.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.