Sauron

I concede nothing; you must prove the claim, if you want to use it.

Then when/if you have done that, you need to show that it applied to Ezekiel in particular; generalities will not do.

mata leao

Then you are a fraud my friend and the debate is over. The prophecy was fulfilled brilliantly and in detail, that is why it has been one of the finest apologetical arguments for centuries and remains so today. Such a shame your juvenile and argument ad lapidem obstructionism has forced us to this point. Come back and see me young man when you graduate from college.

Sauron

No, you're just tossing out claims and expecting them to be taken at face value. Since it didn't work, you've decided to throw in the towel.

Nice claim. No proof.

1. The only thing that has forced us to this point is your refusal to support your position.

2. I am 43.

mata leao

okay my friend, I have employed a well honored collegial call for a second opinion, even though I am on a skeptic message board, I will abide by the consensus, if your colleagues think i should have to supply "evidence" of my position on Ezekiel, as elemntary and quite frankly secondary to the propehcy itself, I will endeavor to do so.I will have to "vet" my source material with google as I understand that you require it to be on google to be considered authentic!

DrJim

mata leao,
What sort of "second opinion" on the basics of ANE studies are you looking for?
I suspect the educated deportees of Judah would have been gainfully employed by their captors, that would at least pay for their tickets to the imperial homeland. But this does not stop your case from being particularly ad hoc, hisotrically incoherent and inventing a lot of subsidiary scenarios to make the primary one work
Face it, all you are doing is heaving the burden of proof onto these other posted situations and circumstances. It is NOT out of line for your objectors to ask you to support these assertions. It is merely accepted academic methodology they are asking you to follow. I suspect they want online resources so that everyone can have access to them. That, too, is fair, even if Google itself is not an academic database.

Please, come up with some support of all the assertions you have made to support your reconstruction of what Ezekiel was talking about and how it is the most probable of all possible interpretations. You are making the assertions.

You write to Sauron: This is pretty arrogant of you to send people way like that when it is you who are getting defensive about your own lack of academic methodology.

P.S., I am 46 and I have a PdD in Hebrew Bible.
There, you have a second opinion.


JR Linville
University of Lethbridge
Lethbridge AB

John A. Broussard

Way to go.

Declare the debate over.

Call your opponent a fraud.

Use obscure and meaningless latin.

Insult the education you think your opponent has.

This is a terrific way to win a discussion.

John A. Broussard

Ooops!!

I guess you were just kidding when you called the debate over.

OK. List me as a second opinion--whatever that may mean in this context.

Let's hear you spout evidence for your position re Ezekiel, elementary as the evidence may be.

As far as I'm concerned (and I'm not speaking for others) if you can produce a peer reviewed, scholarly work, you don't need to refer to google.

mata leao

i will type until my starbucks coffee runs out.....
Quote " In 609 B.C. the Babylonians crushed combined assyrian and egyptian forces at carchemish on the euphrates river. Unchallenged, babylonian armies under Nebuchadnezzar made Judah a vassal state and took a number of young nobels to Babylon, including the future prophet,daniel. Later when Jehoiakim of judah rebelled, nebuchadnezzar returned with another army. He sacked jerusalem early in 597 B.C. and took joaichim, the 18 year old successor of Jehoiakim, to Babylon.Nebudchadnezzar made Jehoichin's uncle Zedekiah Judah's ruler and at that time deported a larger group of Judah's upper and middle class to Babylon. This group,which included a young priest named Ezekiel, was settled in the region of Tel Aviv, along a wide canal linking two branches of the euphrates river known as the kebar river. the settlers were treated as colonists rather than slaves and enjoyed many privileges,but encouraged by the false prophets of judah they looked for the early downfall of Nebudchadnezzar and a quick return to their homeland.....attribution #1 of analysis 1 (Richard's Bible Readers Companion Ezekiel, page 483, to be cont...

mata leao

cont.....atrribution #1 of analysis 1 : Quote Ezekiel, the great prophet of the babylonian exile whose dated prophecies range fromabout 593-571 B.C. Ezekiel was taken captive in the first deportation from Jerusalem in 597 B.C. He was a member of a community of Hebrew exiles who settled on the banks of the chebar, a river of Babylon. It was this river in the land of the Chaldeans that he received his call to prophetic office, in the fourth month of the "fifth year of KIng Joachims captivity. He (Ezekeil) was married and had a house in his place of exile; he lost his wife by a sudden and unforeseen stroke on the very day that the siege of Jerusalem began. The last date mentioned in his prophecy is the twentry-seventh year of the captivity, so it is certain that his ministry lasted over twenty years. Tradition asserts he was murdered in Babylon by some Hebrew prince whom he haD CONVICTED OF IDOLOATRY, and was buried on the banks of the Euphrates. The Layman's Bible Encyclopedia edt William C. Martin ;Ezekiel: Dr. William Pasan (1964) to be cont.......

Sauron

Which proves......what?

Your challenge was to prove that Ezekiel was selected for some kind of training or as a Babylonian courtier.