Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sotto voce · 01-23-2013, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

It's a problem. Jesus took people quite by surprise. He said that his crucifixion would convict the world of its own sin, of his perfection, and of his consequent future judgment of the world. And the subsequent history of the world seems to show that he was right in every respect.

....

Subsequent history shows that Jesus made no impression on the society of his time.

Jesus, a mere artisan, made so much impression that he eventually forced perhaps the most brutal and sinister empire in history to acknowledge him; though only nominally, of course. That is the most extraordinary fact of history.

Quote:

Later generations could only fight to the death over what his message was.

Nobody fights for someone who commands non-resistance. Despite the barrage of contradiction that comes from certain posters here.

Everyone knew Jesus' message, far better than was wanted, anyway. If there was fighting, it was over which heresy was the more convenient and/or convincing. So, Arianism, while attractive, gave way to something both convenient and credible. Supposedly Protestant rulers in time fought that something, because Protestantism was both convenient and credible; far more credible, because based on those 27 books, or so it was claimed.

Chili · 01-23-2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

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Originally Posted by Iskander

Christians have fabricated a new religion from bits in the Hebrew bible as Muslims have also done.

Amazing book the Hebrew Bible!

In his "Consolation of Philosophy" Boethuis has a beautiful line on this, already on the second page of Book I:

"Her dress had been torn by the hands of marauders who had each carried off such pieces as he could get." . . . and scatter they went now as sower themselves.

Beautiful! Splendid! I have enjoyed reading it.

Lovely.

Not a easy read, but just up my way of thinking.

sotto voce · 01-23-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

It's a problem. Jesus took people quite by surprise. He said that his crucifixion would convict the world of its own sin, of his perfection, and of his consequent future judgment of the world. And the subsequent history of the world seems to show that he was right in every respect.

sotto have you noticed that most people on FRDB don't buy into the Christian peddled everyone is sinful line?

Then why do people come here?

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2013, 11:13 AM

Because they don't buy into the Christian peddled line of Hey'sooce cacac.

sotto voce · 01-23-2013, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Because they don't buy into the Christian peddled line of Hey'sooce cacac.

Maybe some regular poster has a serious answer.

Sheshbazzar · 01-23-2013, 03:28 PM

Was serious. Very serious. Not everyone cares to throw their life away on sucking up to a pretend religious monstrosity.
Or in supporting the religious claims of one of the most vile and murderous religions to ever deface the earth.

mountainman · 01-23-2013, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Everyone knew Jesus' message, far better than was wanted, anyway.

There were exceptions, for example from the Nag Hammadi Codices:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/intpr.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Interpretation of Knowledge

they came to believe by means of signs and wonders and fabrications.
The likeness that came to be through them followed him,
but through reproaches and humiliations
before they received the apprehension of a vision
they fled without having heard
that the Christ had been crucified.

But our generation is fleeing since it does not
yet even believe that the Christ is alive.

If they fled without having heard that the Christ had been crucified
then they obviously missed the thrilling climactic conclusion.

Chili · 01-23-2013, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Everyone knew Jesus' message, far better than was wanted, anyway.

There were exceptions, for example from the Nag Hammadi Codices:

http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/intpr.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Interpretation of Knowledge

they came to believe by means of signs and wonders and fabrications.
The likeness that came to be through them followed him,
but through reproaches and humiliations
before they received the apprehension of a vision
they fled without having heard
that the Christ had been crucified.

But our generation is fleeing since it does not
yet even believe that the Christ is alive.

If they fled without having heard that the Christ had been crucified
then they obviously missed the thrilling climactic conclusion.

I never heard it until I immigrated to Canada, and then not until a Mennonite appoached me in this regard and all I could say was "huh," and I could easy have been 30 by then.

sotto voce · 01-23-2013, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Everyone knew Jesus' message, far better than was wanted, anyway.

There were exceptions

But your 'church' wasn't among them. It invented Jesus in the 4th century. Or had you forgotten?

mountainman · 01-23-2013, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by sotto voce

Everyone knew Jesus' message, far better than was wanted, anyway.

There were exceptions

But your 'church' wasn't among them. It invented Jesus in the 4th century. Or had you forgotten?

The Nag Hammadi codices (containing some of the books of the heretics) are dated to the mid 4th century.

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01-23-2013, 11:13 AM	#14
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Because they don't buy into the Christian peddled line of Hey'sooce cacac.

01-23-2013, 03:28 PM	#16
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Was serious. Very serious. Not everyone cares to throw their life away on sucking up to a pretend religious monstrosity. Or in supporting the religious claims of one of the most vile and murderous religions to ever deface the earth.

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