noah

Lee Merrill wrote:
Lee, why do you believe this even though Jews don't? What do you know about their texts and traditions that they don't?

Johnny Skeptic

But Lee, even if all that we had was Mary's genealogy, you would not be able to reliably trace her genealogy back to David. In addition, even if Mary's and Joseph's genealogies could be perfectly harmoninzed, you still could not trace Jesus back to David. At best, all that you can claim is that there is not a reasonably provable contradiction, but even if there isn't a reasonably provable contradiction, you have not reasonably proven a fulfilled prophecy, and prophecy has long been your chief interest at the Theology Web and here at the Secular Web.

Noah asked you "Lee, why do you believe this even though Jews don't? What do you know about their texts and traditions that they don't?" Please answer his questions? As I told bfniii in another thread, many religions have prophecies, and whenever accepting them is world view specific, rational minded people always reject them. If you have the ability to predict the future, and if you want to prove it to everyone, you will make prophecies that appeal to people of all world views. If you only want to prove it to the followers of a specific world view, then you will not clearly state your predictions so that faith becomes the sole means of verifying your prophecies.

Chili

Mary is the womb of man without a genetic identity of her own. She was the woman that was taken from man in the beginning of time. This reservation happens to each generation anew and therefore happens to each one of us when we become rational beings and decide to 'take on the world' and create an identity of our own in favor of that which has been given to us at birth . . . which would be the body of Mary that is ours in bethrotal down the road. Because they go by the genetic human identity as it was recorded but is not the linage of Christ because Matthew contains the claim that the messaih was born of Mary. Matthew was a family record and that is about it.

It is not a matter of believe but it is a matter of fact.

Johnny Skeptic

The point is, what evidence other than faith do Christians have that Mary was a descendant of David? As usual, you address the issue of WHAT SOME CHRISTIANS BELIEVE, and not what ACTUALLY may or may not have happened. EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS WHAT SOME CHRISTIANS BELIEVE.
DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE EDUCATING ANYBODY AT THIS FORUM?

Roller

What is the importance of Matthew's "3x14" genealogy? Is it to show that every 14 generations something important happens? Like, 14 generations from Abraham to David, 14 generations from David to exile, and 14 generations from exile to Jesus? Would this explain the discrepancy between Matthew's genealogy and the one from 2nd(?) Chronicles? He had to take few names out in order to fit "3x14"?

RUmike

I believe so. Also, and I might be totally wrong here, but if you add up the numbers associated with each letter of David's name in Hebrew, it equals 14. Does anyone know if that's true or not? I remember reading something like that a while ago.

Chili

But I am here to learn and not to teach that which is unteachable. Mary is perpetual in truth and that is where her son returns to the line of David (until she moved to Rome). To deny this is to deny truth as reality in favor of genes wherein we are mere manifestations of truth. You are putting the cart before the horse Johnny and that is not very smart.

Johnny Skeptic

To learn what, what people believe, or what probably did or did not happen? Most people are concerned with what did or did not happen. How do you intend to teach people what is unteachable. Please stay on topic. What is being debated in this thread is 1) whether Mary's and Joseph's GENETIC genealogy can be harmonized, 2) even if Mary's geneaology were the only genealogy that we had, can it be reasonably proven that her ancestry can be GENETICALLY be traced back to David, and 3) even if Mary's geneaology can be traced back to David, whether or not that would be of any value to Christians? If you wish to discuss myths, then I suggest that you start a new thread about
myths. You might use some of well-known mythicists Joseph Campbell's writings as a basis. Campbell died some time ago. He was frequently on television.

You are not trying to learn anything at all about the tangible secrets of the universe, and you are not trying to convince anyone of anything factual. You just treat the Secular Web like a coffee shop as a means of preventing you from getting bored.

JoeWallack

JW:
Yes, that is what I believe, it is used in a genealogy that skips generations.

JW:
And I responded to your post, your job (should you choose to accept it), would be to refute my response.

JW:
I'm getting a little weary of answering the same questions again and again...

JW:
No, I don't agree with that.

JW:
those he considered to be candidates for his list.

JW:
And I responded to this quote, you have not yet responded to what I said. I also said the other quotes did not seem pertinent, and they still do not seem pertinent.

JW:
Why did you not quote all the church fathers said about genealogies, then?

JW:
The NIV has a book called the "Complete Concordance," which is not an exhaustive one, for example, and yet I would say it is the result of careful work.

JW:
Erm, because the author knew which names were important to list, and what he said addressed the purpose at hand? Which need not have been to satisfy any given person's curiosity.

JW:
Did I mention that I'm getting a bit tired of repeating myself?

JW:
Well, I did give a response, however, I do not want to open new topics unless it's necessary, and I don't see how this other question is a necessary one to resolve here.

JW:
I responded to these points.

JW:
Why are you simply repeating the questions?

JW:
Regards,
Joseph


"I came here for an Argument. No you didn't."

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

noah

Joe Wallack stated:
and
Welcome to the world of Lee Merrill Joe. Have you read this thread yet?

Best,

noah