David M. Payne

First off, as for the great flood stories, come on man we know that there was an ice age and humans were around for the last one. And as the climate changed and warmed up we had lots of humans living in costal areas who saw, a great flood! Also if you look up my reference you will see that it clearly points out that at one time the Black Sea was a big valley that was flooded by the Mediterranean Sea. Either the ice blocking the Bosporus straits melted, or there was an earthquake there and it opened a crack from the Mediterranean Sea to the Black Sea. This isn't rocket science bud, just the geological facts. Also you have another fact to contend with, there isn't enough water on earth even counting the north and south pole ice to flood the earth to three cubits above the tallest mountains. But of course real, scientifically verifiably facts are not what you true believers believe in, are they?

I'll let the other posters here spar with you on the other points, My film is still keeping me busy but this point of yours is especially amusing.

Why my source for how God must act is right in front of you, but you missed it so let me repost it for you WT.

My source is the word of God WT, the bible. To whit:

Deuteronomy 24-16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

And:

Ezekiel 18-20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.

So part of your conundrum is, is the bible the word of God or not? If not, then of course he isn't bound by it, but also then the bible has no real meaning if it isn't the word of God, does it? And if he isn't bound by his own rules, then he is nothing but a hypocrite and a fraud IMHO. But back to my point WT. Again and as always happens when this point is made, we see a lot of huffing and puffing from the true believers. Lots of excuses for God's act of genocide in the great flood, "God works in mysterious ways", and "who are you are to question the will of God?" But we never see a logical, rational or most importantly a MORAL reason for your God to commit GENOCIDE when he had every other choice available to an omnipotent being to correct the sins he saw in the human race. (That’s what we logical, rational, MORAL humans call killing the entire human race with the exception of Noah and his family. If that act doesn’t meet the definition of genocide, then the word has no meaning.)

David

NZSkep

Willowtree, you seem to know a lot about the flood. could you explain to me how Kiwis (flightless birds) managed to get from NZ to the Ark and back again afterwards without leaving any sign of their passage whatsoever? same for kangaroos, moa birds, and koala bears. the list goes on

Also we have chinese writings from before the flood and also from after the flood. can you explain how, if all the chinese people died in the flood, noah's decendants managed to somehow rememebr this dead language and start writing in it again - amazingly in the exact geographical plocation where the previous writings were. I'd love to know how you scientifically reconcile this with the flood account because I can't get my head round it.
If it was just miracles by god to explain all this then this begs the question why didn't god just miracle all the bad people away instead of putting in all that effort on a flood?

David M. Payne

Yeah MM all real violence is human caused, but when we deal with the God/religion biz and the true believers we must deal with how their beliefs affect what they do. So I think my point stands as far as what may be at the root of why we see all of this religious conflict and holy wars down through history. Their God commits genocide, and that is as bad an example as one could set. Have fun with WT, I've got other fish to fry.

David

fishbulb

You have a good point. There are stories of great floods in most ancient cultures. Well, not Tibetan culture, but most cultures from low-lying coastal areas and river banks have one or more flood stories. Since floods are extremely rare, occurring perhaps only once every few hundred years, it is extremely unlikely that these stories could be the result of several unrelated floods occurring over a long period of time.

While it is true that the various flood stories do not precisely agree with one another in their details, it is safe to assume that they all refer to a common, single event, and that the account given in Genesis is the most accurate, as it contains no fantastical or implausible elements.

But this does not satisfy atheists like Darwin and his followers. After all, if they admitted that the flood were true, they would have nothing but fossils, antibiotic-resistant bacteria, detailed examples of speciation among currently living organisms, and DNA analysis to support their made-up religion of evolution. It is odious the way that these people use such feeble evidence to foist their views on others while at the same time ignoring the iron-clad evidence that disproves their position, such as stuff written in really old books.

Hedshaker

We've recently seen the dreadful effects of death by water and I'm sure a world flood would be immeasurably worse. So even if we allow that God's genocide was neccassary, surly a benvolent all powerful god could find a more humane method, such as quietly putting all those sinners to sleep.

There's just no way around it. David is absoulutely correct in his assesment

Hedshaker

Excellent :notworthy:

That put me in mind of the sketch from Monty Python's Life of Brien "So What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us"?

NZSkep

I had to read your post 3 times before I realised you were being sarcastic. It's that close to a real fundy response - and very similar to a lot of posts I have seen on this board.

Mountain Man

Yes! That is EXACTLY what those that are naive enough to believe that silly flood story. Actually, it's based on fact.Yes, christians.Darwin has nothing to do with it. Reality does.

I see that you have provided no evidence to support your outrageous claims. All you can do is attack the person and poison the well. Typical apologist tactics.

Mountain Man

Then you agree with what I said?Right, it's the belief in gods that is the problem, not the god itself.If the god does not exist, how can it commit genocide? :huh:I'm just playing with WT like a cat plays with a mouse before it kills and eats it.:angel:

JEST2ASK

Do you believe that the Flood story in Genesis came from the earlier stories?

Do you believe that the location had nothing to do with the development of flood stories.

Do you believe that there are no fantastical or implausible elements in Genesis chapters 6 - 10 e.g 6: 1 -4 , 7:6 9: 18-19 note only middle eastern history is spoken of never any other portion of the earth.

Do you discount all natural phenoma that indicates a difference with the timing and events of the Genesis account... I almost wonder if
is not tongue in cheek (whatever that means ??).