mindovermyth

Title got your attention? Should have thrown in batman or spiderman as well.

Thread:

I am an agnostic, I discard the major and minor (pink unicorn, keep grazing and stay out of this) religions to hold the "truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth" and I do not believe any of these religions to be even close (my reasons for this would be another thread, pls just accept this my position for now).
I have not however, sofar found any reason to reject the possibility of intelligent entity/entities creating/manipulating our universe. From my understanding of present theories in cosmology/physics and other relevant sciences, we still have a lot of unanswered questions about the workings and origins of the universe. Heck, some people even suggest that our universe might just be one of many (e.g. string theorists). Furthermore (and I am not really certain here), I have the impression that even amongst the most prominent cosmologists/physicists of our time there are at least some who are not right out atheists in spite of their knowledge.

So, the question: what leads you (lousy, rotten, heretic (sorry, feel I need to create some dramatic tension here between the lukewarm and the warm)) atheists to discard an agnostic position?
Please do not refer to rebuttals of this or that religion in part or in whole, as that would obviously only state your general disbelief in this or that religion in part or in whole, which I hope I have made clear, is not the issue I want to pursue with this post.

Asha'man

Ok, let's start with some formal definitions:
Theist - has a belief in God/Gods
A-Theist - lacks a belief in God/Gods
Gnostic - has knowledge of God/Gods
A-Gnostic - lacks knowledge of God/Gods

You may be agnostic, but you are also describing yourself as an atheist. Welcome to the atheist club!

One more definition:
Weak Atheist – “I simply lack a belief in God/Gods�?
Strong Atheist – “I find it most likely that God/Gods do not exist�?

I am, in fact, both an agnostic and a strong atheist. I haven’t discarded the agnostic position, I’ve extended it.

So, the real question you are trying to ask is: why are you a strong atheist instead of a weak one? Good question.

Having rejected Christianity, Islam, Judaism, the Roman pantheon, the Egyptian pantheon, the Norse pantheon, the Hindu pantheon, and scores of other mythological gods, I started to notice a pattern. Man invents gods. Early man had trouble understanding natural forces, so he created anthropomorphic explanations, wrapping those forces in bodies and personalities called gods.

I also noticed another pattern: man creates fictional stories with fantastic elements. There are scores of stories about elves, fairies, unicorns, dragons, sea serpents, grey aliens, ghosts, goblins, trolls, etc. I drew the conclusion that gods were simply another category of mythological beast, entirely invented by man’s imagination. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that gods belong in a separate category than leprechauns.

Therefore, the most likely conclusion by a wide margin is that there simply are no gods in reality, only in fiction. That is the strong atheist position, and the one I hold.

Lucretius

I read this post and had all my answers worked out and in the mean time Asha'man has come along and expressed what I think only much clearer and in a more concise way.

The AntiChris

As far as I can see, the evidence for God is absolutely consistent, in every respect, to the evidence one would expect for a fictional character.

Under these circumstances. it would be downright perverse of me to believe that God was anything other than a fictional character.

I'm therefore a strong atheist and, because I don't claim 100% certainty, some would also call me agnostic.

Chris

Writer@Large

I don't think any but the most strident atheists would disagree. And I've never MET one of those. The way I view it is this:

I am a STRONG ATHEIST with regards to every specific deity concept I've ever been presented with. Yahweh, Allah, Shiva, Odin, and the rest. For each individual concept, I am convinced of nonexistance, in the same way I am convinced of the nonexistance of unicorns, lepruchans, and compasionate Conservatives.

I am a WEAK ATHEIST with regards to deity concepts in general. Since no specific deistic concept has stood up to scrutiny, I currently lack a belief in deities.

I am a WEAK AGNOSTIC, however, in the general outlook that I am open-minded to the possibility that one might be discovered in the future, seeing as how there is so much we don't know about the universe.

I am not a STRONG AGNOSTIC, and apparently neither are you--strong agnosticism being the notion that we not only do not, but cannot know.

Now, as that's a lot of explanation, and there isn't a single label that fits them all perfectly, I have to decide which one to "present" myself as. Since, when most people ask me "Do you believe in God?" or "what religion are you?" they are asking with reference to a specific deistic concept and not to the vague notion of deities in general, it's easiest to say "I don't believe in any gods" or "I have no religion." Hence, I present myself as an ATHEIST, because for all practical purposes, that's what I am--even though I'm openminded to the possibility of change.

--W@L

EverLastingGodStopper

There is a great discussion on this subject in another thread:
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=108953