spin

I have this notion that a collection of citations which included Josephus was in circulation, so the referrer didn't actually have the Josephus text at all. This would tend to permit this sort of mis-titling. I've noticed that a few fathers tend to cite Josephus passages consecutively -- but I haven't looked into it with any rigour.


spin

Ben C Smith

No. The incident with John the baptist would fall under the following heading:

The war and defeat of Herod the tetrarch against Aretas the king of the Arabs.

I am translating this table of contents right now. When I finish I will be glad to offer you the full translation.

Ben.

S.C.Carlson

This also makes sense. I bet it is even true for most of the citations in the chronicle tradition.

Stephen

Ben C Smith

Okay, here it is. Translation corrections or suggestions welcome:

Ταδε ενεστιν εν τη ιη των Ιωσηπου ιστοριων της Ιουδαικης αρχαιολογιας·
These are the things contained in the eighteenth [volume] of the histories of the Jewish antiquities by Josephus:

Ως Κυρινιος υπο Καισαρος επεμφθη τιμητης Συριας και Ιουδαιας και αποδωσομενος την Αρχελαου ουσιαν.
How Quirinius was sent by Caesar as an assessor of Syria and Judea and custodian of the estate of Archelaus.

Ως Κωπωνιος εκ του ιππικου ταγματος επεμφθη επαρχος Ιουδαιας.
How Coponius, from the order of the knights, was sent as prefect of Judea.

Ως Ιουδας ο Γαλιλαιος επεισεν το πληθος μη απογραψασθαι τας ουσιας, μεχρις Ιωζαρος ο αρχιερευς επεισεν αυτους μαλλον υπακουσαι Ρωμαιοις.
How Judas the Galilean persuaded the multitude not to register their estates, until Joazar the high priest persuaded them rather to submit to the Romans.

Τινες αιρεσεις και οποσαι παρα Ιουδαιοις φιλοσοφων και τινες οι νομοι.
Certain sects, even as many of the philosophers among the Jews, and certain laws.

Ως Ηρωδης και Φιλιππος οι τετραρχαι πολεις εκτισαν εις τιμην Καισαρος.
How Herod and Philip the tetrarchs created cities for the honor of Caesar.

Ως Σαμαρεις οστα νεκρων διαρριψαντες εις το ιερον τον λαον επτα ημερας εμιαναν.
How Samaritans threw the bones of dead men into the temple and defiled the people for seven days.

Ως Σαλωμη η αδελφη Ηρωδου τελευτησασα τα αυτης κατελιπεν Ιουλια τη του Καισαρος γαμετη.
How Salome the sister of Herod died and left her possessions to Julia the wife of Caesar.

Ως ∏οντιος ∏ιλατος ηθελησε κρυφα εις Ιεροσολυμα εισενεγκαι προτομας Καισαρος, ο δε λαος ου κατεδεξατο στασιασας.
How Pontius Pilate wished to bear busts of Caesar secretly into Jerusalem, and the people did not accept this, and rebelled.

Τα συμβαντα Ιουδαιοις εν Ρωμη κατα τουτον τον καιρον υπο των Σαμαρεων.
What happened to the Jews in Rome at this time under the Samaritans.

Κατηγορια υπο Σαμαρεων ∏ιλατου επι Ουιτελλιου, και ως Ουιτελλιος ηναγκασεν αυτον αναβηναι εις Ρωμην λογον των πεπραγμενων αποδωσοντα.
An accusation of Pilate by Samaritans in the time of Vitellius, and how Vitellius compelled him to go up to Rome to give account for what he had done.

∏ολεμος Ηρωδου του τετραρχου προς Αρεταν τον Αραβων βασιλεα και ηττα.
The war and defeat of Herod the tetrarch against Aretas the king of the Arabs.

Ως Τιβεριος Καισαρ εγραψεν Ουιτελλιω Αρταβανην μεν τον ∏αρθον πεισαι ομηρους αυτω πεμψαι, προς Αρεταν δε πολεμειν.
How Tiberius Caesar wrote to Vitellius to persuade Artabanus the Parthian to send him hostages, and to make war against Aretas.

Τελευτη Φιλιππου, και ως η τετραρχια αυτου επαρχια εγενετο.
The death of Philip, and how his tetrarchy became a prefecture.

Αποπλους Αγριππα εις Ρωμην, και ως κατηγορηθεις υπο του ιδιου απελευθερου εδεθη· ον τροπον ελυθη υπο Γαιου μετα την Τιβεριου τελευτην και εγενετο βασιλευς της Φιλιππου τετραρχιας.
The sailing away of Agrippa to Rome, and how he was bound after having been accused by his own freedman; in what manner he was set free by Gaius upon the death of Tiberius and became king of the tetrarchy of Philip.

Ως Ηρωδης αναβας εις Ρωμην εξωρισθη, και ως την τετραρχιαν αυτου εδωρησατο Γαιος Αγριππα.
How Herod went up to Rome and was banished, and how Gaius gifted his tetrarchy to Agrippa.

Στασις των εν Αλεξανδρεια Ιουδαιων και Ελληνων και πρεσβεια αφ εκατερων προς Γαιον.
The strife of the Jews and Greeks in Alexandria and the embassy from each to Gaius.

Κατηγορια Ιουδαιων υπο Απιωνος και των συμπρεσβεων επι τω μη εχειν Καισαρος ανδριαντα.
Accusation of the Jews by Apion and of the fellow ambassadors for not having a statue of Caesar.

Ως αγανακτησας Γαιος πεμπει ∏ετρωνιον ηγεμονα εις Συριαν πολεμησαι Ιουδαιους, εαν μη θελησωσιν εισδεξασθαι αυτου τον ανδριαντα.
How Gaius became irritated and sends Petronius the leader of Syria to make war against the Jews, unless they wish to receive his statue.

Την συμβασαν φθοραν τοις εν Βαβυλωνι Ιουδαιοις δι Ασιναιον και Ανιλαιον τους αδελφους.
The destruction that happened to the Jews in Babylon on account of the brothers Asineus and Anileus.

∏εριεχει η βιβλος χρονον ετων λβ.
The book encompasses a timespan of 32 years.

Ben.

Roger Pearse

Very big and hard to use volumes too, at least in the original edition. I still remember the genuine physical pain of photocopying 4 fascicles from it.

Lucky to have access, tho. Many thanks for the translation.

I find that I have translations of a fair number bits of stuff myself from French, and rather than lose them I have been adding them to my collection of the fathers.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

Michael Hardwick in his Josephus as a historical source in Patristic literature through Eusebius proposes the existence of such a collection also. In fact IIRC he points out that one of the works of Cyprian is just such a collection of proof-texts (although not including Josephus) so such things did indeed exist.

Against this is the general principle of not inventing additional texts unnecessarily, and the witness of Oxyrhynchus that cheap (and nasty!) copies of texts were indeed available fairly readily.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Roger Pearse

Alden Mosshammer in his book on Greek Chronography (or via: amazon.co.uk) suggested that chronicle compilers really *need* brevity in their sources. They just don't have time to digest vast wodges of stuff.

Titles of ancient texts get messed up a lot. Remember that in the papyrus era they were just stuck on a tab on the end, so could even fall off! The number of texts in medieval mss that simply read "De fide" (=On Faith, i.e. scribe: 'I have no idea what this text is called') is very considerable.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Malachi151

Ben C Smith: Wow again! Thank you and Carlson very much. What a great resource, thank you!

May I use this in my article (published on the internet on my own site) and credit you?

Ben C Smith

Sure, no problem. You might wait a day or so to see if anyone has improvements on the translation. I am particularly interested in the translation of these two items:

Τινες αιρεσεις και οποσαι παρα Ιουδαιοις φιλοσοφων και τινες οι νομοι.
Certain sects, even as many of the philosophers among the Jews, and certain laws.

Τα συμβαντα Ιουδαιοις εν Ρωμη κατα τουτον τον καιρον υπο των Σαμαρεων.
What happened to the Jews in Rome at this time under the Samaritans.

The first uses οποσος, always a difficult word for me to translate smoothly, and the second does not seem to reflect the events in book 18 very well (I do not recall the Samaritans having anything to do with what happened in Rome, though there is a Samaritan incident in Palestine at this time). Either the chapter compiler conflated things or I have missed the force of that last prepositional phrase.

Ben.

DCHindley

Some months ago I sent Peter Kirby some updates to my old list of citations from the TF and about James the Just, etc, that he used to list on his Home Page, but I really don't know if the changes made it in as he never responded.

Unfortunately, most of his pages have been down for some weeks now and no one knows what happened to Peter, so I cannot even confirm my doubts.

Anyhow, below are a couple additional citations about the Testimonium, as cited by Shlomo Pines. I found the citations in a work by Marian Hiller (see link below), although I'd caution that he seems to be pursuing an agenda.

In my original list (which I can probably produce if anyone has interest) place the following citation between the citations from Suidas in voce Jesous (Ca. 980 CE) and Cedrenus Compend. Hist. (Ca. 1060 CE):

942 CE. Agapius, Melkite bishop of Hierapolis, in Asia Minor, Kitab al-‘Unwan (an Arabic chronicle of the world, probably translated from a Syriac version of a Greek original):

For he [i.e. Josephus] says in the treatises that he has written on the governance [i.e. Antiquities] of the Jews: At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. His conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders. [Translated by Shlomo Pines, “An Arabic Version of the Testimonium Flavianum and its Implications,” in Studies in the History of Religion, edited by G. G. Stroumsa, The Collected Works of Shlomo Pines, (Jerusalem: The Magnes Press, The Hebrew University, 1996), vol. IV, pp. 41-42, , as quoted by Marian Hillar, M.D., Ph.D., www.socinian.org/files/TestimoniumFlavianum.pdf.]

Place the following between the entry from Glycas Annal (Ca. 1120 CE) and that from Godfridus Viterbiensis (Ca. 1240):

1195 CE Michael the Syrian, Patriarch of Antioch, (Syriac) Chronicle, his source for the Testimonium probably being a Syriac translation/adaptation of Eusebius’ Chronicon by James of Edessa, who died ca 708 C.E.):

The writer Josephus also says in his work on the institutions [i.e. Antiquities] of the Jews: In these times there was a wise man named Jesus, if it be fitting for us to call him a man. For he was a worker of glorious deeds and a teacher of truth. Many from among the Jews and the nations became his disciples. He was thought to be the Messiah. But not according to the testimony of the principal [men] of [our] nation. Because of this, Pilate condemned him to the cross, and he died. For those who had loved him did not cease to love him. He appeared to them alive after three days. For the prophets of God had spoken with regard to him of such marvelous things [as these]. And the people of the Christians, named after him, have not disappeared till [this] day. [Translated by Shlomo Pines, “An Arabic Version of the Testimonium Flavianum and its Implications,” in Studies in the History of Religion, edited by G. G. Stroumsa, The Collected Works of Shlomo Pines, (Jerusalem: The Magnes Press, The Hebrew University, 1996), vol. IV, p. 58, as quoted by Marian Hillar, M.D., Ph.D., www.socinian.org/files/TestimoniumFlavianum.pdf. Bracketed words are corrections according to the version in the al-Makin manuscript, made by Hillar]

Dave Hindley
Cleveland, OH USA