spamandham

A. Monotheism has nothing to do with mathematics.

B. There is no logical necessity to end up at a single irreducable entity. Even the god of the book you worship is not irreducible, as he/it is capable of being described by more than a single adjective, which means he/it has more than 1 aspect (not surprising, since we have more than 1 aspect, and the Hebrew god was modelled after the typical tyrant dicatators of the time). That which can be described in constituent terms, is not irreducible.

Sheshbazzar

The problem is Joseph, that NONE of the above are as good as it could be, and all are false.
The G-d that is described in the writings of The TaNaKa, is an insane boogeyman only suitable for the terrorising of little children, and superstitious
and unlearned goat herders, the fearful, and the weak-minded.
Without The TaNaKa, I may have believed, but after having read, and having given long thought to what is recorded in The TaNaKa about the ways and the acts of the G-d of the Hebrews, I am revolted and repelled by the type of G-d that the Hebrew scriptures reveal.
Small wonder that so many wanted to escape from that monstrous and evil cult being forced upon them by Moses and his gang of murderous extortionists.

I utterly reject your Jew G-d as a vile and evil fabrication of men.
I do not choose between these evil branches growing out of one and the same rotten stump; NONE of them were "chosen"; They all alike are liars, thieves, murders. The offspring of an evil religious cult that pollutes and warps men's minds with silly lies, baited with worthless promises.
But I trust, and I have all confidence, that this bigold tree that is rotten right down to the roots, will die, and all of its poisonous branches will die along with it. It will soon fall apart from all the rot that has so long infested it, like every other ancient and rotten tree, its days are numbered, it will fall, it will fall, and soon be forgotten.
Every day, I lay my axe to the rotten roots to hasten the day.

kcdad

Can you explain a little more about "inexplicable compulsions"?


"we have no explanation how a great idea comes into a man's mind"

Yes, we do. Creativity is the association of diverse pieces of information put to new uses.

They don't appear from nothing. You might want to look into James Burke's ideas of the Knowledge Web.

bacht

Would you agree that belief in a God such as described in the Jewish bible is merely a reflection of the ignorant imaginings of the people of the time?

What I mean is, even if Judaism were erased from human history, do you really think that its ideas wouldn't have emerged in some other way? Isn't mankind itself the "father of all lies"?

I don't see how eliminating a symptom cures the disease (human evil)

Sheshbazzar

Paths not taken, all alternatives are unknowns, and must forever be unknown.
One can only operate with effect, in the real world, the one that we do have.
"Judaism" is a fact of the world we live in, and cannot be erased from human history.
The evils that we see in this world, and this words history, are the only ones that we can have any impact upon.
Hypothetical speculations about a non-existent worlds "history" does nothing to make this world a better place.
I am a farmer, today I actually took a real axe in hand and chopped out quite a few roots, for the specific purpose of making a visible and functional improvement upon the landscape, and the world that I inhabit, protecting my children, grandchildren, friends and neighbors, by the labor of my own two hands.
Here in Kentucky, Poison Ivy quickly spreads, and grows huge branches that can climb to a hundred feet or more. Contact with it can cause intense skin inflammation, much human suffering and misery.
The most effective cure for Poison Ivy, is to eradicate and eliminate it from any location that humans inhabit.
Religious stupidity likewise, inflames the brains of its victims, and causes an intense craving for the application religious bullshit to scratch their itching ears.
Religion in all of these thousands of years has never yet been the "cure for human evil". One might as well wrap themselves up with poison ivy vines from head to toe to "cure" poison ivy.

kcdad

Mankind isn't evil. Mankind is an animal that wants to survive.

What you call evil is what another man calls survival. I use violence against you because you, or someone like you, first used violence against me...

bacht

All I'm saying is that people can rationalize anything, good or bad. I don't see the point of condemning a particular religious system for primitive human behaviours. The Hebrews didn't invent greed, stupidity, cruelty etc, such ills have been with us since pre-history.

And who really thinks that all Jews ever followed all their own teachings in any era, any more than all Christians? And how can you generalize that Abrahamic religions have never produced any good behaviour? this is probably statistically impossible.

The cure for human evil has always been up to ourselves. Blaming my bad behaviour on my god or my teacher is silly. We all have to take responsibility for our actions in the world. Social and political sanctions are a factor of course, but ultimately we have to shoulder our guilt as individuals imo.

If you hate Judaism so much why did you name yourself after a Jewish prince?

bacht

I'm using the word "evil" as shorthand for all the ways we mistreat each other and ourselves.

Stress and anxiety can induce bad behaviour, but we're still autonomous actors, we're not passive robots.

We've inherited many physical and mental processes from our animal cousins, but we have far more self-awareness and freedom of action. Whether we like it or not we do have conscience and understanding of morality. Only the insane can be excused from this.

It's been fashionable for several generations to pretend that humans are just animals, but this is childish. We're more than animals, and we deny this at our peril.

Sheshbazzar

All good points bacht.
I don't "hate" Judaism (or Xianity, Islamism, Hinduism, ... or any of the other -isims and -anities that -men- have dreamed up to deal with mans social problems, inhumanity, and the abuse of our planet.
Yet as I said before "The problem is Joseph, that NONE of the above are as good as it could be, and all are false."
This is the great flaw that every one of these religious -systems- serve to perpetuate, They each develop their own particular set of fabricated and false teachings, lies and built in biases, that permanently demean and marginalise others. Cliquish cults always in conflict, where getting the "upper hand" only means the domination and suppression of any dissent from the dominating cults particular brand of -anity or -isim.
Under such a system, the "truth" can only consist of only what the dominating party decrees to be "true", and even if it is obviously and glaringly false and in error by any objective examination, religious alignment and conviction demands that it be proclaimed as "true", sometimes even resorting to the social injustices of suppression, mistreatment, and even murder and genocide to protect religious truths that are nothing more than cleverly devised lies.
Far better then that men would cultivate and nourish a true and genuine love of the truth, in truth, for the sake of THE truth, rather than the noxious vines of these primitive so-called religions that poison and inflame men's minds with half-truths and outright lies.
Far then from hating religion, I see that some roots are diseased and rotten, and some branches bear the "evil" fruits. As a good husbandman, my axe is laid to the evil roots, and my prunings to vines that bear evil fruits, what is good, I cultivate, nourish, and protect, and what is evil, I cut away, and cast into the heap for to season, for the day of burning.

As for my name Sheshbazzar, it has been with me many years, even long
before I ever heard of the Internet. From the beginning it has represented a task that is not yet accomplished, and understandings that my fellow men have not yet attained to, but among whom, as befitting a prince and a prophet of the seed of Israel, I labor in complete certainty of confidence that the day will yet come, when all men everywhere shall understand perfectly. Then my name will be changed.

bacht

Well, I used to be an idealist. All I can say is good luck, I don't see the mass of humanity embracing Truth anytime soon. Fear and ignorance are the real demons haunting humanity since the beginning afaics.