Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2009, 08:50 AM

A Doherty sacrifice in the heavens feels a far superior type to save the world!

Quote:

Christ of St John of the Cross

http://www.glasgowmuseums.com/venue/...id=4&itemID=68

(Did someone mumble something about man creating god in his own image?)

Toto · 02-27-2009, 08:58 AM

This is why Marcion is a bit more logical. There is the inferior God, the Demiurge, who made this imperfect world with all of its design defects and flaws. Jesus was the son of the true greater God who came to redeem it from the Demiurge.

dog-on · 02-27-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

This is why Marcion is a bit more logical. There is the inferior God, the Demiurge, who made this imperfect world with all of its design defects and flaws. Jesus was the son of the true greater God who came to redeem it from the Demiurge.

Yes, this is as I see it, as well.

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2009, 01:38 PM

Now I am really confused. If Marcion is clearly gnostic in the proud tradition of Zarathustra, why have their been arguments about the mystery religions like mithraism post dating xianity?

dog-on · 02-27-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clivedurdle

Now I am really confused. If Marcion is clearly gnostic in the proud tradition of Zarathustra, why have their been arguments about the mystery religions like mithraism post dating xianity?

Apologists will argue anything that may contradict their dogma, I guess.

Clivedurdle · 02-27-2009, 01:58 PM

I must be seeing as in a glass darkly.:devil1:

PhilosopherJay · 02-27-2009, 02:05 PM

Hi George,

Probably, he went to Taurus from 3 PM Friday till 3 AM Sunday for a vacation.

A recently discovered papyrus found in his tomb supports this. It says,
"Gone fishing, be back Sunday."

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Hathaway

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Excellent summary of Christian theology.

How does a 3-day timeout qualify as a sacrifice anyway?

Joan of Bark · 02-27-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

Interesting point. What did Jesus actually "sacrifice"? What did he give up? True, there was tremendous suffering involved in his death, but his reward was to be made eternal Lord of the universe. That hardly sounds like a "sacrifice" in the traditional sense of the term.

Now, if he'd agreed to spend the rest of eternity suffering in hell so that others wouldn't have to, THAT would be a sacrifice.

I've made this point before, and I think it's a good one for putting doubt in the minds of Christians. You could also say: Jesus 'sacrificed' his life in an imperfect world for a perfect life in heaven. It would have been a greater sacrifice if He'd saved himself with a miracle and remained on Earth, suffering with his disciples.

storytime · 02-27-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bacht

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

The basic premise of Christianity, as it currently is understood, is the following; A god sacrifices himself to himself to save us from himself.

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Philippians 2.5-11

At this point Christ is almost the same as God, not quite con-substantial

Rather, "Put on the mind of Christ which is inheriently yours through him(the anointing); for he thought it not robbery to make himself equal to God (god in you and you in him), and so to be in the form of a servant being born in the likeness of men." Therein God is all in all. "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God." "And God dwelt with us in the form of a man, Christ Jesus."

(this stuff from my days as a Christian)

In this respect, are we not all "Gods" whose image and likeness we have created? "Let us make man in our image and in our likeness, of how we want man to be." (Doctrinal effect)

Do we not then make this mythical God to be evil and good, according to the precepts of man[scribes]?

But why the teaching that the name of Christ was above every name and honor bestowed on that name above others? Was it recognizing the Priest as head of the body[congregation]? (the priest being the mouth of God). And the "others" as those who are named in tribes of Israel? So as defining and identifying The head and the tail? Maybe even beauty and the bands?

Some puzzle, huh?

juergen · 03-01-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roland

Now, if he'd agreed to spend the rest of eternity suffering in hell so that others wouldn't have to, THAT would be a sacrifice.

Exactly!

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02-27-2009, 08:58 AM	#32
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	This is why Marcion is a bit more logical. There is the inferior God, the Demiurge, who made this imperfect world with all of its design defects and flaws. Jesus was the son of the true greater God who came to redeem it from the Demiurge.

02-27-2009, 01:38 PM	#34
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Now I am really confused. If Marcion is clearly gnostic in the proud tradition of Zarathustra, why have their been arguments about the mystery religions like mithraism post dating xianity?

02-27-2009, 01:58 PM	#36
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I must be seeing as in a glass darkly.:devil1:

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