Freethought & Rationalism Archive

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR · 02-25-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

Please re-read Genesis and you will find your ideas to be in error.

Okay,
Genesis1
Once upon a time...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

You state it took 5 million animals.
The Bible does not state that.

Of course not, when Moses thought up the Bible, he did not know there was that many animals roaming the earth, flying the heavens and swimming in the waters. Even the ones he saw drove him batty...

Not his fault though, he wasn't that intelligent to begin with, besides he went insane after he murdered that Egyptian, his conscience fucked with him. He was under delusion when he thought God appeared to him in the bush.

How many animals do you estimate got on the ark? Don't go by artist renderings on Christian web sites or illustrated childrens Bibles, while there is some decently done depictions, they are not accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

You state that 5 million animals had one day to get on the ark.
The Bible does not state that either. It just says that as the animals came to Noah that they went into the ark and after seven days the flood came.

Wrongo Mongo! I am under the assumption you are simply mistaken, maybe your Bible, you know which one I mean

is a misprint, perhaps one of the ones Knoch printed himself? Knoch wasn't too intelligent either, he simply made a lot of mistakes, especially in translating hebrew and greek.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

So it may have been weeks to get all the animals on the ark or even months and then once the animals were all on it was seven days before the flood came.

Genesis 7:1 Then the LORD said to Noah, “Enter the ark, you and all your household, for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time. 2 “You shall take with you of every clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; 3 also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth. 4 “For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will blot out from the face of the land every living thing that I have made.” 5 Noah did according to all that the LORD had commanded him.

No weeks, months or even one hundred years as you are supposing, seven days to get everything on to the ark

You need to read a little further, bub! Of course your mileage may vary, you are biased to the tin lizzy Bible Knoch slapped together.

Genesis 7:13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark.

We'll suppose that very day is the first day of the seven days

I'll buy that, like I said. Eight people boarding might take up to... let's say an hour at the most.

All the millions of animals getting on in seven days, still, No, ah way.

Of course maybe they and all the animals had already been aboard and were hanging out on deck for weeks or months, like you suppose, to wave bon voyage to all the creatures that didn't make the cut, entering the ark may just mean they went below deck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

Care to take another stab at it?

Sure, but there isn't much left to stab at it's already full of holes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarlOfLade

Depending on how you define species, Noah would have had to manage between 3 and 5 million species. And either 2 or 7 of each, so, at least 6 million animals aboard or maximum 35 million.

Absurd!

The ark would be full of shit, too!

Shirley Temple probably sang,

Animals crapping in my soup
Monkeys and rabbits sure can poop
Gosh oh gee but I feel blue
Swallowing animal's feces two by two

In every bowl of soup I see
Lions and Tigers poopy
I make 'em dump right through a hoop
Those animal crapping in my soup

When I get hold of the big bad wolf
I just push him under to drown
Then I bite him in a million bits
And I gobble him right down

When their insides turn smelly and dark
I walk holdin' my nose around Noahs Arc
I stuff my tummy like a goop
With animals crapping in my soup

David B · 02-25-2007, 10:33 AM

Looking back at your reply to me above, Tony6, it is hard for me to know where to start.

The whole post got so convoluted. What's more, you have a lot more things to answer for others.

Just a couple of things for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyN

.....I don't know how far it is from the mountains of Ararat to Mauritius but let's suppose 2,000 miles. It would have taken roughly 5 1/2 years to make the journey at 1 mile a day. The flightless birds probably could have done the journey in a year or less. It is my personal belief that most of the animals on the ark were young. I can't prove it so don't ask

Quote:

Originally Posted by me

David: Also, have you considered what they would be eating on the individual oddysses (so to speak) of all these species? Especially the meat eaters?

Quote:

Tony: It could be that the animals entered into a sort of hibernation. Or their metabolism greatly slowed. ...

How can animals walk a mile a day in a state of hibernation?

Another question I had dealt with the time scale you proposed for the continents to get to where they are today from your dating of the break up of your putative single continent.

Checking through the web site, I see that this was about 4700 years. Agree, give or take a few years.

You further said (somewhat contentiously OMV) that continental drift might not (indeed, it's intrinsic to your position that it must not have) been going at the same rate as it is now.

So when do you think it slowed to it's present rate?

That might get us to what sort of rate of continental drift there must have been (according to your argument) when it was (according to you) going much faster than we observe today.

David B (leaves the questions of what mechanisms made it go so fast, what mechanisms caused it to slow down, and what the geophysical results of such fast continental drift would have bee to a later date)

David B · 02-25-2007, 01:30 PM

Hey, Tony, I've just been having a look at the link you provided about the time line of the bible, and I notice that the biblical side of the website is just the tip of the iceberg.

The guy who made the site also goes on about atlantis, and all sorts of other crazy stuff.

He doesn't, himself, seem to think his biblical stuff any more valid than any of the other things he writes about.

Example follows.

http://earth-history.com/Atlantis/index.htm

Why do you take this guy's website seriously?

David B

spamandham · 02-25-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR

Of course not, when Moses thought up the Bible,

Moses is almost certainly a fictional character. At best he is a legendary figure. He certainly didn't have anything to do with writing the Bible.

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR · 02-26-2007, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Moses is almost certainly a fictional character. At best he is a legendary figure. He certainly didn't have anything to do with writing the Bible.

Well yeah, a fictional character in a fictional story. God talks to Moses in the said story:

Exodus 34
27And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

In the movie, 'The Ten Commandments (1956)' Charlton Heston plays Moses, he's also the voice of God, quite telling of people in real life who claim they know of God, and His word, it's their own twisted, tormented mind talking to them...

Quote:

Originally Posted by David B

Hey, Tony, I've just been having a look at the link you provided about the time line of the bible, and I notice that the biblical side of the website is just the tip of the iceberg.

The guy who made the site also goes on about atlantis, and all sorts of other crazy stuff.

He doesn't, himself, seem to think his biblical stuff any more valid than any of the other things he writes about.

Example follows.

http://earth-history.com/Atlantis/index.htm

Why do you take this guy's website seriously?

David B

Alright David B, now you've gone way too far!

Denying that the Bible is true is understandable, but Atlantis?

Sven · 02-26-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyN

I went to the first link and it stated:

"Note that the dates given must be regarded in most instances as approximate. Dating systems for Egyptian studies are quite various, depending on how they are constructed and what assumptions are used. Presented below is one such interpretation, but it is assuredly not the only one."

What need we say more? There has to be a gap because they were all destroyed in the flood. Egypt is not that far from where Noah and crew landed and re-settled Babylon. What is 100 - 200 years time in the thousands of years history of Egypt? That is like looking for a pin in a haystack.
After Noah, Shem, Ham and Japeth and families re-kick-started the re-population of the earth some people moved back into Egypt.

I am right.

Poe's law? Or a sockpuppet of Willowtree? :huh:

gregfl · 02-26-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED DAVE

From gregfl:
Don't give up your day job. Your future as a lyricist is problematic.

RED DAVE

True that. Plus, I was under the influence of this thread.

:devil1:

DISSIDENT AGGRESSOR · 02-26-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

[deleted - already addressed]

Since I saw what you posted sorry for any confusion :blush:

Going on TonyN's many assumptions, I'd guess he believes Moses wrote the first five books, actually the Torah, of course with God's help, and obviously some scribes, maybe :huh:.

The Bible never states,

God: Moses!

Moses: Judas Priest! What now? I mean, Here I am Lord!

God: Write this down, Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.

Moses: Can I borrow your finger, Lord? Mine is quite sore from pointing it at everyone.

God: OK, also write down that you've died and I'm going to personally bury you, keeping your body's location a secret, but don't worry I'll resurrect you later.

but considering all the other fantastic things through out the Bible it is more than likely.

RED DAVE · 02-26-2007, 04:33 PM

Still waiting for you TonyN. This series of questions is not going away. – Notice 2

From RED DAVE:

Quote:

Perhaps you could confine yourself to:

(1) documenting a gap in Egyptian history in and around Bishop Ussher's date;

(2) documenting the death of approximately 2 million Egyptians during that gap;

(3) documenting the total collapse of Egyptian culture during that gap;

(4) documenting the slow, painful revival of Egypt from a devastation worse than anything we can imagine: total and complete destruction of population, economy and culture.

And added by Barefoot Bree

(5) documenting just HOW Noah's descendents could have recreated Egyptian culture in such perfect continuity of its past; language, writing, clothing, architecture, religion*, etc, when the entire civilisation (except the buildings) was washed away. What was their source material?

(6) * explaining why Noah's immediate descendents, after having just survived the absolutely clearest demonstration of their God's wrath and power imaginable, if not first hand then through the undoubted bone-chilling stories passed down from their elders who did, decided to turn their backs on said God, risk his wrath again, and revive the Egyptian pantheon instead.

RED DAVE

Barefoot Bree · 02-27-2007, 06:22 AM

Well, Red Dave, it's not as much fun as VAAAAAAAARVES! but it seems to have the same repelling effect. :devil1:

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02-25-2007, 01:30 PM	#133
David B Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 11,620	Hey, Tony, I've just been having a look at the link you provided about the time line of the bible, and I notice that the biblical side of the website is just the tip of the iceberg. The guy who made the site also goes on about atlantis, and all sorts of other crazy stuff. He doesn't, himself, seem to think his biblical stuff any more valid than any of the other things he writes about. Example follows. http://earth-history.com/Atlantis/index.htm Why do you take this guy's website seriously? David B

02-27-2007, 06:22 AM	#140
Barefoot Bree Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: East of ginger trees Posts: 12,637	Well, Red Dave, it's not as much fun as VAAAAAAAARVES! but it seems to have the same repelling effect. :devil1:

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