Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scaramallion · 11-17-2003, 06:49 AM

Turning blue yet?

McNamara · 11-17-2003, 07:05 AM

I cheated. I've been breathing this whole time. Anyway, back to work for me. I'll check back later.

livius drusus · 11-17-2003, 07:28 AM

Needless to say, Elsewhere is this thread's new home.

Light · 11-17-2003, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by McNamara I have to go to work soon. But let's see:

Which country's navy? What rank did you hold when you were discharged? What kind of ships and what types of powerplants do you have experience with? I don't mean any disrespect if you really served, I just want more specific information.

Classified information Sulzer, Pielstick, Man, Paxman, steam turbines.

Not quite true. U.S. Navy warships carry a great deal of fuel oil, jet fuel, ammunition, etc. but every one I know of has a smoking area topside. At least the U.S.S. Dubuque did, for what that's worth. There was someone smoking there nearly 24 hours a day, at sea and in port.

Can you tell me why people are making war when they are supposed to be living in peace? Outline ALL of the factors if you have time. Are we all living above our means maybe? Does fatalistic "religion" have anything to do with all of this? Would a one-child family model be of any help at all? What are we fighting, shadows? "Holy" madmen? "Religious fanaticism?" Pontius pontificator? (Shadow of the valley of death, etc.)

That's an issue for the legislature to decide, and has only to do with economics. Banning smoking for reasons of controlling morality would, in itself, be immoral.

That is for common-sense to decide and righteous legislators to apply. If we have to wait any longer for them to decide we are all going to be here for a very long time. How about NOT banning smoking for reasons of profit and tax collection. If there was NO tobacco on the planet then people could not smoke.

How about Ethanol production for the long term availability of fuel supply? Would it make better use to grow grain for fuel than tobacco for illness and do the same with grain used for alchohol?

I read The Crucible and The Scarlet Letter, is that the kind of Puritan morality you're talking about? If so, I'd vigorously oppose the imposition of such "morality" on society.

I only have the Bible and the example of The Christian Master, I wonder what you can learn from it alone? Did He smoke or read pornography? Did He make war or peace?

I wonder how a Nun would feel about the present level of immorality and warring?

You must have had a pretty idyllic time in the Navy. Either your sailors really hated you and you never noticed, or you were in charge of a bunch of robots.

It is meant as an example of what this world could be in view of the above. Some Captains hated me, especially when I said that I would lock them up and run the ship myself.

Men are not altruistic. They don't just serve a flag or an ideal.

More the province of women then? If not serving a flag or ideal Whom do they serve, God and fellow men and women everywhere?

They serve alongside other men, and expect a certain measure of respect and fair treatment. You can't drive them like slaves and expect them to like it because it's their duty. And if God was the captain, his omnipotence would rule out the necessity of a crew.

So if God were the Captain of this Planet He would have no need of you?

Am I to suppose the opinion of the CO is the only one worthy of consideration? He's got all the answers and there's no need for him to examine other viewpoints? You don't sound like someone who's seen the enlisted side of things from anything other than an ivory tower.

If ALL men treated each other as Brothers there would be no ivory tower for the few to look down on others from. Especially in an Egalitarian RE-Public.

�galit�, Fraternit� and Libert�. But one has to closely examine the Verit�. For it is the Truth that shall set men Free.

ieyeasu · 11-17-2003, 07:51 AM

DNFTT

andy_d · 11-17-2003, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ieyeasu
DNFTT

Ooooh, I dunno. This is ~E~, after all

Light · 11-17-2003, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by livius drusus
Needless to say, Elsewhere is this thread's new home.

Thank you yet again Marcus.

mongrel · 11-17-2003, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Light
Called mutual respect.

True, and if a CO wishes to keep this respect, they know a bit of give and take is essential.

Quote:

I was in the Navy for twelve years as an Engineer Officer. I have a Yacht Masters certificate.

I apologise for being a bit hasty. But you of all people should know better. Being a despotic commander doesn't get the same results from the crew.

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Ships carrying fuel oils, explosives, gas, or other explosive cargo have a total ban on all smokers items.

Ok, you got me there, mostly. I forgot about fuel- and ammunition-lighters and such(I never served on those kinds of vessels). But all ships carry fuels of some kind, and many carry explosives, etc.(can anyone say, "warship"?). Smoking on warships is only ever banned on all upper-deck areas while refueling or ammunitioning ship. It is also banned in the vicinity of fuels stored on deck(such as outboard motor fuels, stored in quick-release racks at the side).

Quote:

In civilian life tobacco is very damaging to health and puts an unacceptable burden on the State and its Health Services, outweighing ALL returns from revenue.

Undoubtedly. But it's a small vice many sailors have. Allowing smoking on the uppers is not harmful anyone but themselves, and helps them to relax- being at sea on a warship can, after all, be quite a stressfull and dangerous environment.

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But I see that you do.

And you, evidently, know nothing of Puritan morality.

I never claimed to.

But evidently, it means imposing your moral standards onto others.

Quote:

I have never known this to be the case in any Military Organisation.

Ok, it was a bit of an exaggeration there, but the point stands. The harder a CO is on his/her crew, the less efficient they will be.

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Because it is their duty to do so.

There is a bare minimum they must do to fulfill their duty. More giving CO's are rewarded with harder working and more efficient crews.

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You wouldn't expect God to do it all for you would you? In that case He would simply have no need of you, if He could run the entire ship by Himself.

I wouldn't expect a god to do anything for me. But that is for the same reason I don't expect Santa to do anything for me...

And what possible need would and omni-everything god have for me or anyone else?

Quote:

So you were never the Captain or Commanding/Executive Officer, I take it?

No, close to the other end of the spectrum.

And, at least in the RAN, IIRC engineering officers cannot become CO/XO of a ship, either.

Edited to add: I see I've been beaten to some of these points by McNamara. Oh, well...

McNamara · 11-17-2003, 05:45 PM

A good reply nonetheless Mongrel, you pretty much nailed my thoughts.

You know, Light, I don't fully understand all of the reasons for war. They are many and varied, and I don't expect I'll ever know why they all happen. One could divide wars into broad categories, such as wars for possession, religion, and pride, but often there's a little bit of each thrown in.

Goliath · 11-17-2003, 07:35 PM

THE TIMECUBE PERMITS ALL SUFFERING AND IS THE SOURCE OF ALL LOGIC! aND TRIANGLES!

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11-17-2003, 06:49 AM	#31
scaramallion Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Surrounded by Opiates Posts: 154	Turning blue yet?

11-17-2003, 07:05 AM	#32
McNamara Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Posts: 1,167	I cheated. I've been breathing this whole time. Anyway, back to work for me. I'll check back later.

11-17-2003, 07:28 AM	#33
livius drusus Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Selva Oscura Posts: 4,120	Needless to say, Elsewhere is this thread's new home.

11-17-2003, 07:51 AM	#35
ieyeasu Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 844	DNFTT

11-17-2003, 05:45 PM	#39
McNamara Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Posts: 1,167	A good reply nonetheless Mongrel, you pretty much nailed my thoughts. You know, Light, I don't fully understand all of the reasons for war. They are many and varied, and I don't expect I'll ever know why they all happen. One could divide wars into broad categories, such as wars for possession, religion, and pride, but often there's a little bit of each thrown in.

11-17-2003, 07:35 PM	#40
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	THE TIMECUBE PERMITS ALL SUFFERING AND IS THE SOURCE OF ALL LOGIC! aND TRIANGLES!

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