Symptom

from what I've seen many people just hate homosexuality on general principles, and use their religion to justify that irrational hatred so they don't come across like bigots or loons. I'm sure there are plenty of christian sheep who just blandly follow along with whatever their preachers tell them and put on a show of being anti-gay without really *feeling* it. but it's the real firebrands like fred phelps who get the bile ducts raging, and who knows what their justification is - maybe they're closet homosexuals. maybe their dog was run over by a man in a dress. whatever, but they use the bible as an excuse to hide their own fears and irrationality behind.

Sven

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:
:thumbs:

kjartan

Well if one believes in the Bible , one have to believe that being a sexually active gay is wrong and if you are a woman you should not speak up in public... that s what the bible say...

And all the talk about liberal churches just makes me want to p... I mean the book is really clear on the subject so I still believe that gays and women sould get the hell out of whatever church they belong to fast! and if they have to they could make their own church

Epictetus

The Bible says a lot of wacky stuff. Doesn't make it true.

But let's talk about your "concern" over gays attending church. Your position on this interests me, particularly since you apparently reside in Europe. Now, your attitude would indicate that you came from a place like...oh...Redneck Corners, Alalbama. But perhaps Europeans can be intolerant just like some Americans. I suspect that gays attend churches everywhere because they find some solace in these places and sense the need within themselves to worship God. Churches are filled with all kinds of people; accountants, wife-beaters, teachers, policemen, politicians. Why do you single out gays for special contempt? Being gay has nothing to do with your ethics. And as I said before, it is unclear if there is any proscription anywhere in the NT against homosexuality. So what's the big deal?

Live and let live. I can't think of a more desperate, pathetic, bigoted approach for a church than to say, "You gay people are evil. Go start your own church!" After all, what would Jesus say?

Barefoot Bree

(Emphasis mine.)

Gays and women both, eh? Now I know you are either trying to pull a Boro Nut, or - ahem - deliberately posting something you don't believe in just to get a reaction.

Either way, Star Trek's on. Time to put on my ears and commune with my better selves. Bye.

jester2459

I once asked someone the same question as the OP. He was openly and comfortably gay and was also Catholic. So I basically asked how he could stay a strong member of a group that thought his very being was immoral. I think he mistook the question, because his answer was how he could be religious and gay. That is, he explained how he thought God viewed him and that since God made him that way, it was ok, etc. We got interuppted and I never got to redirect the question to what I was really asking, which was how he could believe in Catholocism and be gay, not how he could be gay and believe in God.

All the same, I think it did help me find something of an answer to your OP. I think that the idea is that there is something pure and true at the heart of [insert Christian sect], but that the human superstructure might have a few flaws. Partly this comes from a selective viewing of the church's teachings and holy writings. Partly it comes from viewing Jesus as good/right, viewing their individual lifestyle and philosophy as good/right, and then conflating the two to decide that what Jesus really meant to get across would have validated their views.

To me, the obvious next question is "if you are only aware of Jesus, his teachings, and the characteristics of god because you have accepted the word of a middle-man (your church), then you've questioned the accuracy of parts of that conveyance, what makes you think the rest of it is still accurate?" So I'm not sure if gay Christians have answered that question (maybe some personal feeling of connection to their spirituality, essentially setting themselves up as a prophet) or just avoided it. But that's as close as I've come to being able to answer the OP's query.

Valdemar

Jesus made an obvious connection to the Old Testament. Most Christians believe Jesus was God, and God inspired the Old Testament.

A. God wants to put gays to death.
B. Jesus=God
C. Jesus wants to put gays to death.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Of course they're bigoted. That's why gays should switch religions or become Atheists.

Milky

Maybe its an example of Stockholm Syndrom?


I agree its an odd thing, when people side with their oppressors it defies logic.
The world is full of examples like this. They never fail to puzzle me.

The only connection I can make is that maybe they love the rituals and tradition, and ignore the gospels. Feeling outcast from 'normal' society, participating in these rituals might make them feel a greater part of a society that hates them. Maybe they are searching for a sympathy and acceptance of their oppressors by particpating in their own subjegation: Stockholm Syndrome?

Columbus

Reading most of the posts on this thread about Christianity reminds me of reading jdlongmire post about gays. He lumps them all together and draws conclusions based on his beliefs and what the term "gay" means to him.

Believing that Jesus is God, and also that certain parts of the Bible are misguided cultural artifacts is far and away the norm among Christians. Plenty of people have quite different views about the Teachings of Jesus and the Book of Leviticus.

"Divinely Inspired" and "Literally True" are not the same thing.

Tom

TomboyMom

Well, I had a lover (alas, no more) who was an active, happy lesbian and a devout Christian. She goes to church once or twice a week (MCC) and believes in what the bible says, and reads it all the time, but does not let anyone else tell her what it says. She relies on her own understanding of it. She believes that the primary message of Jesus is "love one another" and the prohibitions are less important. When I asked her if she found any conflict between her religion and her lesbianism, both of which were very important to her, she said, "I prayed that if it was not from Him, to take it away from me. He didn't, so I believe that it is from Him." Hey, it's not my world view, but it works for her. We did have an interesting talk one time about the single new testament passage regarding women having sex with women, but she did not read that to be a prohibition so much as a description or history, if I recall correctly. I would guess that she believes that her way of loving--a lesbian way--is as valid and important as a heterosexual way, and that her God values love. Once I asked her if she thought that lesbian sex is a blessing from God. The answer, of course, is, "It is if you do it right." :devil3:
I will say that she is one of the calmest and most accepting people I have ever met.


Rene