Sheshbazzar

They should have used more gunpowder. :Cheeky:

aa5874

I am NOT ignorant of the EVIDENCE, the Written Statements of antiquity.

When I examine any matter, I EXAMINE the EVIDENCE--NOT Expert Opinion.

You appear to be ignorant of the written statements of antiquity about Jesus.

You appear to be ignorant of the fact that it was in the Public Domain--in the Roman Empire--Published and Documented that Jesus was BORN after his mother was found WITH CHILD of a GHOST.

You appear to be ignorant of the fact that manuscripts and Codices have been recovered and dated to the 2nd century and later which show that it was WRITTEN that Jesus was FATHERED by a Ghost.

The Church KEPT the RECORDS of Jesus.

Please, don't be ignorant of the Church Records.

The Records of the Church do show and BOAST of a Jesus the Son of a Ghost.

TedM

And that is your pride-full downfall, unless you claim to be perfect. Is that what you claim aa? Are you more learned than people who have spent their lives specializing in various aspects of study that you haven't? If you aren't then why be so close-minded?

I'm also curious about your belief that the absence of evidence is not just evidence of absence but is PROOF of absence. If someone you know says they called out your name this morning but there are no witnesses and you didn't hear it, do you then claim that he didn't call out your name? And if it truly does come down to 'credibility' do you really believe that not a single one of the writings by those who profess to believe in the supernatural contain ANY truths at all, and therefore the hundreds if not thousands of pieces of evidence for the existence of Christianity in the first century are to be discarded?

If so, Christians LOVE your position aa because it confirms their stereotype of atheists as foolish people driven by either psychological trauma or sinful pride. And, those non-believers you are trying to reach will similarly reject your position as biased. Do you realize that your extremist position actually works against your own agenda?

If there is one thing I've learned over the years from this forum, it is that I know a lot less than I thought I knew. Any pride-full knowledge I had has been tempered with the reality that I am not an expert on any of these subjects.

No, aa, EXPERT opinion should be rejected only when one can legitimately claim to be All-Knowing. When one sets themselves up as being God, the truth is all too clear to those around them that have any sense. Wake up.

aa5874

You don't know what you are talking about. I have been a JUROR and it is the EVIDENCE, the EVIDENCE, the EVIDENCE that is presented which is taken into consideration.

Experts are PAID or EXPECT a reward for their opinion.

Experts can give completely opposite opinion on the very same identical evidence once they are Paid.

Please go to any Court trial you will generally find two OPPOSING Experts.

Based on your absurdity no non-expert could ever be a Juror.

Based on your absurdity no non-expert can resolve any matter.

And further, it is extremely mis-leading for you to imply that all "learned" people agree about the nature of Jesus.

Why do you persist in your error??

Are not Doherty and Ehrman considered LEARNED persons??

Yes or No??

Well, they do NOT agree on the Nature of Jesus.

You post absurdity after absurdity. Please, if you were accused of a crime and brought to trial, is it not the absence of evidence that will help to exonerate you??

Now, that Jesus was the Son of a Ghost, God the Creator, who was on the pinnacle of the Temple with Satan, that walked on the sea, transfigured, resurrected, ATE food afterwards and ASCENDED is actually found in the NT.

Mythological Jesus is actually found in the documented Published Recovered and Dated manuscripts and Codices--not absence of evidence.

Again, you post mis-leading information. You very well know that NO actual manuscript has been recovered about the Jesus and cult and dated to the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

Why do you persist in making blatant erroneous claims.

There is ZERO actual recovered evidence for the Jesus story and cult in the 1st century yet you declare, as if in a dream world, that there are hundreds if NOT thousands of pieces of evidence.

There is nothing.

You don't make much sense.

You post More absurdities. Please name a Christian that LOVES my position??
Your position is EXTREMELY illogical and is completely unsubstantiated.

The use of Myth Fables as sources of history is unacceptable at any level.

Again you post more absurdities. If you were asked to re-examine a CASE would you NOT examine the EVIDENCE??

Would you consider yourself a God because you re-examined the Evidence and not the opinion of Experts??

You don't make much sense.

Evidence is Fundamental in the resolution of any matter. This is basic.

Please, remember that the Evidence, the written statements about Jesus have been recovered and Dated.
It was published, documented and well accepted in the Roman Empire that Jesus was the Son of a Ghost.

Sheshbazzar

You are aware, I'm sure, that Christians and HJ-ers LOVE to misrepresent your position aa.

aa5874

Did they NOT mis-reprsent their own Jesus, the Son of a Ghost??

Some say the Son of a Ghost was God the Creator.

While another claim a man was not his Maker.

The Son of a Ghost is the ONLY "man" without a father.

And a Virgin as a mother.

They Mis-represent their Own Jesus, the Son of a Ghost.

Fake History is what they BOAST.

TedM

Experts are used in trials aa. Or, didn't you know that? Jurors who IGNORE expert opinion are disqualified as biased. There is a degree of trust required when listening to experts but most people are willing to trust that experts who are interested in the truth call out the experts who deliberately mislead. When they are in near universal agreement, that should be considered worthy of examination. When they oppose each other that too should be considered worthy of examination. You are unwilling to even listen to experts, it appears. That is your mistake and disqualifies your conclusions from having any credibility.

Sure, as a part of the examination of ALL the information provided, including the testimony of experts.

Why are you ignoring what I wrote? Hundreds if not thousands of pieces of evidence exist for the existence of Christianity in the 1st century. Actual manuscripts dated to the 1st century are only ONE of many many pieces of the potential evidences. And you have yet to answer my question as to why in the world you think that there should exist hard physical evidence in the form of manuscripts when only a very small percentage of manuscripts survived that period in history? The fact that many of the earliest surviving pieces of NT writings are a very small percentage of the writing they came from is clear evidence of the difficulty of survival.
If I were one I would LOVE it because it is a terrific advertisement for the foolishness of atheism.

Yes, if I were foolish, because ignoring experts carries with it the presumption that you can learn nothing from them because you know as much as they know. That is what you are doing. It's a superiority complex--a God complex. A psychological distortion. Expert opinion should be ignored only if you have as much training and knowledge as the experts. Otherwise it should be examined along with all of the other evidence.

aa5874

You continue your BLATANT mis-representation of the facts. There are NO actual hundreds if not thousands of pieces of evidence for Christianity in the 1st century.

You cannot name a single actual piece of evidence for Christianity in the 1st century.

Expert opinion is NOT evidence of anything.

You are yet to tell us why you hold a position that is WITHOUT a shred of hard evidence

You are yet to tell why you hold a position that is based on Admitted Discredited sources filled with discrepancies, contradictions and accounts of Jesus that most likely did NOT happen.

You are yet to tell us why you hold a position that is based on sources of Perjury.

My position is based on the HARD Evidence.
My position can ONLY BE overturned by EVIDENCE.
My position is REVIEWED ONLY when New Evidence is found.

This is my argument based on the HARD EVIDENCE--The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century or later.


Please, name a Christian who loves my position.

You seem not to understand that Christians on this very thread may think your statement is a "terrific advertisement for the foolishness" of HJers.

EVIDENCE is what matters. Evidence comes FIRST. There is NO obligation and it is NOT mandatory that an Expert must give an opinion.

It is Mandatory, It is a Must that Evidence must be presented.

Experts may give their Opinion on the EVIDENCE.

Jurors ALSO give their VERDICT based on the Evidence.

Ordinary people can give their opinion of WRITTEN statements--This is basic and done throughout the world everyday even before there were Experts.

Ordinary people PREDATE Experts.

Ordinary people can read, ordinary people can think, ordinary people can form an opinion about any matter. Ordinary people throughout the world GIVE evidence and Examine Written statements.

I can read Matthew 1.18.

What does it say???

Mary was WITH CHILD of a Ghost.

I can read Mark 6.48-49.

Jesus Walk on the sea.

You probably need an Expert.

The Jesus stories are 2nd century Myth Fables.

outhouse

jesus wasnt famous while alive, he was nothing special

and he hung out with peasants and low lifes who for the most part were illiterate



its my opinion, only the temple incident launched his fame

TedM

This says it all. If you were in court you would be disqualified because of your close-minded dismissal of the conclusions regarding everything other than 'hard evidence' of those much more knowledgeable than yourself. I should start calling you the Almighty Avoider.