Antipope Innocent II

*Yawn* And as others have pointed out in response to your cracked-record question, Ebion wasn't believed to have existed by the Ebionites. That's where your false analogy wobbles, wavers, falls over and falls apart.

Get a new argument spin.

andrewcriddle

The relevant part of the quote reads Andrew Criddle

EarlDoherty

Well, I did ask. Thanks Andrew.

"...anything so far written on the subject." I wonder what this includes? Wells himself, presumably, but who else? Is he going back as far as Couchoud, who was the last major and 'quality' writer (in the 20s) on mythicism before Wells? Are Acharya and Freke/Gandy or Ellegard (remember him?) since Wells to be considered "superior"? Who knows?

Personally, I think, like all scholars (and that even included Richard Carrier in his 2002 review of my book, who complained about my lack of "polish according to existing conventions"), Hoffman doesn't like my non-academic style and layperson target. I don't use enough jargon and don't spruce up my stuff with scholarly paraphernalia. On the other hand, I wonder if he actually read the book. I would dispute that I have simply "rehashed" much of Wells. My case is vastly different from that of Wells and I borrowed virtually nothing but a few minor points relating to very secondary subjects from him.

Anyway, I think his attitude would rule out any invitation to take part in The Project.

Earl Doherty

Zeichman

Kind of related: "Jesus: Myth or History?" by Archibald Robertson is an interesting and somewhat sympathetic (if critical) history of the mythicist case, written in 1946. It's out of print, though.

Regarding Doherty's comment above, I would think that Price also has "written on the subject," even if he does not commit to ahistoricity.

EarlDoherty

I have often said that if Bob Price would "commit" himself to mythicism, he would take over the #1 spot overnight--although I think he is a bit hamstrung by his commitment to total Pauline inauthenticity. Not that the latter would make mythicism less possible (hardly), but that without some Pauline authenticity in the first century, it is much more difficult to demonstrate mythicism.

I also happen to think that he is wrong in that regard, and my latest study of the Epistle to the Hebrews I think helps demonstrate that. This was to have been part of my revision of The Jesus Puzzle, but my preparatory 'essay' on that chapter turned out to be so detailed and comprehensive, with a lot of new ideas, that I have ended up with a 35,000 word treatise on the epistle, which is far too long for the book. So I will be posting it in about a week or so on the website, and will later condense it for the book. I will say right now that I think this study shows beyond the shadow of a doubt that Hebrews knows no historical Jesus--and by extension, it vastly strengthens the same case for the early record in general. (As well as provides a corollary argument for some Pauline authenticity.) I’d be willing to stand or fall on this study.

Incidentally, speaking of Hoffman and Price, since Hoffman dumped on the quality of my book, I guess he doesn't think too highly of Price's judgment, since Price included a very favorable quote for the cover of the Jesus Puzzle:

"A great book! I can only say I felt like the disciples on the road to Emmaus. 'Did our hearts not burn within us as he opened the scriptures to us?' "

I think it may be the case that Hoffman never picked up the book, let alone read it.

Earl Doherty

Jobber

Earl,

I have enjoyed your website and plan to get your book. Thanks for all you are doing.

The "Fellows" listing on the Jesus Project has been inaccessible to awhile now. Is A.J. Levine still planning on joining the Project?

Toto

The Fellows listing was in error. Read Hoffman's explanation here - the actual fellows are still under consideration.

Boro Nut

Me too. Even to this day If an old lady is being mugged by a gang of chavs I instantly slip unnoticed into the nearest telephone kiosk. Unfortunately the smell of piss is like kryptonite to me, and I'm powerless to emerge from the foetal position. The effect is so powerful it happens even when it smells of fresh pine needles and domestos. Luckily nobody has discovered my secret identity as yet, not least the hapless artist on crimewatch.

Boro Nut

Toto

OK - the critics have spoken.

I have split off the digression to Who Wrote Hebrews.

spamandham

...appeal to authority? Have you ever considered why HJ is the mainstream view? As far as I can tell, it's the mainstream view not because it's so well supported, but merely because of tradition stretching all the way back to the 2nd century. The case is far from settled.