FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Biblical Criticism & History
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-14-2008, 05:29 PM   #61
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin, Australia
Posts: 874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi151 View Post
I don't think that the Isaac narrative has anything to do with it. Also, I think that Mark 1:11 is based on Isaiah 42:1:

"Here is my servant, whom I uphold,my chosen, in whom my soul delights;I have put my spirit upon him;he will bring forth justice to the nations."
The Isaac narrative was special part of a constellation narratives and topoi that are about the beloved son who is sacrificed literally or symbolically, and whose death came to be seen as atoning or salvific in the Second Temple period. If Galatians precedes Mark and Mark's gospel is in any sense "Pauline" then the the Isaac narrative was very much part of the "midrash" that contributed to the shaping of the narrative.

Having since read Knohl's article, what he is proposing is hardly as radically new as media beat-ups might indicate. He is focusing on the Josephite beloved son atoning sacrifice idea and this is part of the the Second Temple theological trend that Levenson discusses as part of the Isaac beloved-son-sacrifice midrashic development. Joseph midrash is just as central to the Jesus narrative, and its themes of supersessionism, hostility of older and longer-serving brothers, their intent to murder over the inheritance, and the reversal of all they hoped are brought to the fore in the parable of the wicked husbandmen.

Mark 1:11 is certainly based in part on Isaiah 42:1, and Isaiah is as much informed of the suffering beloved son theme as other Jewish writings. Isaiah itself stands within the deeper tradition. Isaiah's parable of the vineyard is also the bridge between the "Josephite christology" and the Parable of the wicked husbandmen.

The Second Temple development of these Isaac-Joseph beloved-son atoning-sacrifice ideas would fit and enrich your own model of the Jesus story having emerged from a progression of Jewish messianic and apocalyptic traditions.

(I've since completed my notes on Levenson's study, btw.)

Neil
neilgodfrey is offline  
Old 07-14-2008, 06:19 PM   #62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin, Australia
Posts: 874
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by storytime View Post
My two cents - NT resurrection story is a spinoff of Hosea 5:15, 6:1-2

"I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offense, and seek my face; in their affliction they will seek me early.

Come, and let us return unto the Lord; for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.

After two days will he revive us; in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight".
The 3 days motif in relation to the Passover sacrifice also came to be connected to interpretations of the Isaac narrative in the Second Temple Period. (And as discussed in my much earlier post the Isaac narrative was being reinterpreted among some Jews of the time as a sacrifice to atone for all Israel.) Jubilees adds to the Genesis account:

Jubilees 18:17-19:
Quote:
And Abraham went to his young men, and they arose and went together to Beersheba, and Abraham dwelt by the Well of the Oath. And he celebrated this festival every year, seven days with joy, and he called it the festival of the Lord according to the seven days during which he went and returned in peace. And accordingly has it been ordained and written on the heavenly tablets regarding Israel and its seed that they should observe this festival seven days with the joy of festival.
From my Levenson notes:
Quote:
The only 7 day festival in the first month is the Passover (Lev. 23:5-8 ). It appears that Jubilees is providing an etiology of this 7 day festival, too. There is no comparable etiology for this in the Bible. The seven day festival is a joyful celebration of Abraham’s 7 day journey in which he offered Isaac: 3 days to the place, one day sabbath rest, and 3 days return. The reason it was joyful was because Isaac was spared at the last moment.

Unlike the Leviticus account, Jubilees begin this 7 day festival on the 12th in order to make the offering of Isaac coincide with the Passover sacrifice.
The idea of a beloved son being sacrificed to save martyrs and others who followed in the faith does not appear to have been novel to Christianity. What does seem to have been novel, as I understand it for now, was the apocalyptic meaning given to the story.

Neil
neilgodfrey is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:59 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.