triffidfood

Uhuh, the above being essentially, more-or-less the extent of the Biblical claims then, I take it?

Egypt had some slaves (actually, probably migratory workers, do we know they were actually 'slaves'?) from 'Palestine' somewhere .. these people migrated southwards (into Egypt), probably as a result of hard times in their homeland(s) ... and then 'escaped' (wandered) back to Canaan when the situation there had improved.

So that's what the Bible says is it? What about the 600,00 Jews? Actually, 600,000 fighting men (plus presumably a couple of million others ~ women, children, men beyond fighting age, etc) ... where were they?

What about the 40 years these 2-3 million Israelites spent wandering around in the Sinai, without, apparently, leaving so much as a trace? What about the glorious 'conquest' of Canann & destruction of city after city (convenienrtly managing to dodge all the Egyptian garrisons stationed there at the time and, again, without leaving so much as a shred of evidence that they'd ever actually been there)?

Just some Palestinian 'slaves' who probably escaped.. ?

MiddleMan

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/palmer/numbers.html

robto

I'm not suggesting it's a historically accurate description, just that the general outline is plausible. Does the Exodus story retain some memory of what really happened, or is it pure myth? That's my question.
Well, is it fiction? That's exactly the question I'm asking, and your response is an example of the logical fallacy "begging the question".
I'm no expert on medeival England. Does it or doesn't it? Wouldn't it be interesting if it did?

Isn't it possible for the general outline of the story to be true, allowing for legendary expansion in things like numbers of people? Why, indeed, would you expect a centuries-old legend to be accurate about the numbers?

And as for the evidence of wandering tribes, there is evidence: the Shasu. Conquest of Canaan: see my previous post. I agree that the Bible picture here is wildly inaccurate - the cities in question were not destroyed all at once according to archaeologists. But just as surely, Israel did come into existence by aournd 1200 BC, by which time the Canaanites were effectively gone.

Anat

robto, are the James Bond stories historical or fictional? Surely there was a cold war, and there were spies and other secret agents acting on behalf of the various governments, but the specifics are fiction. What about the Sherlock Holmes stories? Victorian London really existed, Baker street is still there, there may even have been detectives operating there, solving crimes.

According to the Exodus story is that the Israelites were all descendants of escaped slaves from Egypt who entered Canaan together and replaced the local population. This is unsupported by archaeology. The majority of the population were local and remained local. The Israelite material culture was a derivation from Canaanite culture, not a new culture brought from outside. The Israelites did not replace the Canaanites, they were Canaanites.

It's not that the cities were not destroyed all at once - many were not destroyed at all or had been unpopulated for a long time before the emergence of Israelite identity.

robto

Well, and that's my point. You could learn a lot about Victorian London by reading Sherlock Holmes. Or about medieval England by reading Beowulf.

jackrabbit

And this of course includes x-ian scholars who are trying to prove their claims. In fact, they are probably the most desparate to come up with something, anything to use as "proof".

jackrabbit

Yeah, it appears that Yellowstone National Park was smitten by god too.

RED DAVE

From robto:
The events depicted in Beowulf reflect the period commonly called the Dark Ages. It was written down before the establishment of feudalism as a system and the beginning of the Middle Ages. And it takes place in and around Denmark.

Otherwise, you're right.

RED DAVE

rob117

The Sodom and Gomorrah claim is from Ron Wyatt. The sulfurous emissions near the Dead Sea are natural tectonic activity and the "buildings" are sand dunes.

According to Mazar, 1990, it is likely that the Sodom and Gomorrah stories were actually inspired by the visible ruins of Early Bronze Age settlements overlooking the Dead Sea plain. Such a desolate area around the Dead Sea would naturally conjure up myths about destruction.

Steven Avery

That is a convenient reversal of fortunes:-)

Reena, the best thing to do is actually look at the pics on the Net carefully (Google "Wyatt Sodom Gomorrah").
http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm

When folks tell you that they are "natural" or caused by some other event, or simply "sand dunes" ask them to show you similar formations for comparison. Also make sure they have plenty of sulphur.

Shalom,
Steven Avery