aa5874

What??? Well you are just wasting my time. You AGREE with me that Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline writings are late and that Ehrman's claims are faulty.

Please, you are just arguing for argument sake.

You have NOT identified anything that Justin stated that is NOT Credible. You are just asking rhetorical questions.

I have IDENTIFIED Pauline Lies. The Pauline writer claimed he witnessed the resurrected Jesus, that his gospel is NOT from any human being and that Jesus gave him information about the Last Supper.

I have IDENTIFIED Lies in Acts--the author claimed he traveled with Paul and that Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake but was not harmed at all. See Acts 28.4

Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline writings have been recovered and none of them have been dated to the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

That is exactly what I expected.

I do NOT expect any writings to be found about Jesus, the disciples and Paul to be from the 1st century and before c 70 CE because they are a PACK of LIES and the Gospels are a Pack of Myth Fables.

Sheshbazzar

No. I am trying to get you to answer these specific QUESTIONS.
No. I didn't identify anything that Justin stated that was not credible.
The questions are NOT rhetorical. As may be clearly seen, These QUESTIONS are directed at you and what you find 'credible' about Justin's tale.

They are questions being clearly directed to you to establish what it is that you believe regarding Justin Martyr and what he wrote.
You should have no trouble giving honest answers to these questions.
In a Court of Law, and in front of Judge and Jury you would be expected to provide such answers or risk being held in Contempt of Court.
All of which is quite irrelevant to addressing the QUESTIONS which you have clearly been asked regarding JUSTIN.
Please. Tell us about Justin Martyr. Did he lie about meeting an old man who told him about Christ?
Did he lie about there being Christians before him?
Did Justin his self invent the name 'Jesus Christ'?
or was it done by someone else earlier? Who? When?

In your view, IS Justin's account of these events and conversations credible?

aa5874

But, you asked practically the same bunch of questions on the 19th august 2012 on this very thread and I answered you.


How many times must I tell you that when I compare the statements of Paul and Justin with the Recovered Dated Texts that Justin Martyr's writings are Compatible with them but Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline writings are NOT.

I consider Sources that are Compatible with the DATED recovered Texts as Credible.

How many times MUST I show you some of those sources that are IN agreement with the Recovered DATED Texts???

Now let us look at gMark 4, it provides Powerful evidence that the Jesus character was NOT Scarcely known whether it is a Myth fable or not.

Mark 4:1 KJV If the Gospels provide powerful evidence then Ehrman's Scarcely Known Jesus is a propduction of his own imagination.

The Gospels State Jesus of Nazareth was WELL-KNOWN.

Ehrman has placed himself in a very hopeless Contradictory position.

J-D

Good luck with that. In my experience, aa5874 never answers questions.

Sheshbazzar

With The Gospels as yet unwritten and unknown, per your 'Theory', how credible is it that any real 'Justin Martyr' would actually have been writing in this manner?
Was this Justin Martyr inventing the verses and situations of these as yet unknown and unwritten gospels aa?
Or did he have a direct line to an as yet unhappened future?

Please aa. Explain to us how it is that "Justin Martyr" writing in the 150s is able to quote verbatim, the Gospel verses and Gospel situations that were not yet written or known?

I'd love to hear your explanation for how an authentic Justin Martyr was able to perform such an amazing feat.





.

Duvduv

......Especially when "Justin" makes no distinction among the various versions of synoptic gospel stories, giving the impression there is only one version of each event among all the unnamed "memoirs."

Sheshbazzar

For the sake of others who are reading this thread, I will in subsequent posts identify a few of those portions of this allegedly 2nd century writer called 'Justin Martyr's 'writings' that absolutely reek of actually being 3rd century and latter Catholic Church theological propaganda compositions in disguise, reflecting not the thoughts or beliefs of any primitive and undeveloped Christian faith, nor of any actual early Christian writer, but of the long evolved and developed theological arguments, reasonings, and apologetics of a much latter Catholic Church.

I will show here that 'Justin' and his writings are all contrived theological fabrications of a much latter origin, and that no 2nd century CE writer in a primitive Christian religion was ever their author.

'Justin Martyr' and that tale as 'reported' by 'Justin Martyr' is pure Catholic Church fabrication and is without any value at all as being any valid witness to 2nd century CE Christian beliefs or to actual history.

It is NOT credible that any 2nd century CE writer composed these writings attributed by the Catholic Church to their invented and mythical talking head named 'Justin Martyr'.

'Justin Martyr' is nothing more than a latter fabricated Catholic Church propaganda liar.
Those situations and those 'conversations' which 'Justin' the Church puppet so elaborately 'reports' NEVER HAPPENED. And they ARE NOT of any 2nd century origin.

'Justin Martyr' and 'his' writings are nothing more than late Catholic Church fabrications back-written with a deliberate intent to misrepresent, and to create and support Church propaganda and a devised, false, and fabricated Catholic Church 'history'.

'Justin Martyr's' 'writings' are NOT authentic to the 2nd century any more than are those of Irenaeus.

aa5874

Your statement is WHOLLY erroneous. I have NOT claimed that the Jesus story was unwritten and unknown during the time of Justin. You are horribly mistaken.

Justin Martyr used the "MEMOIRS of the Apostles" called Gospels.

First Apology And further, in "Dialogue with Trypho" it is claimed that Trypho also READ the Gospel.

Dialogue with TryphoMy argument is that there was NO Jesus story in the FIRST CENTURY and BEFORE c 70 CE as suggested by the Recovered DATED Texts and compatible sources.

Don't you realize that Justin Martyr is NOT considered a 1st CENTURY writer??

Now, according to Ehrman, the Gospels provide "powerful evidence" for an HJ and Ehrman claims his Jesus of Nazareth was SCARCELY Known.

Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 3, and Mark 4 Powerfully Contradict Ehrman--Jesus of Nazareth was WELL KNOWN.

"Did Jesus Exist?" is certainly a Failure of Facts and Logic Exactly as stated by Carrier.

Lets us examine the 5th chapter of gMark.

Mark 5 In chapter after chapter of gMark it is claimed Jesus was followed by many persons.

Ehrman's Scarcely Known Jesus is a NO Source--No Evidence--No Proof argument.

The present Recovered Dated Texts suggest that the Jesus story was composed in the 2nd century and later.

Sheshbazzar

And here is the QUESTION aa. WHO wrote these alleged "MEMOIRS of the Apostles" called Gospels.'???

WHEN were these alleged "MEMOIRS of the Apostles" called Gospels.' written aa???

Nice Catholic Church propaganda aa.

Do you have any evidence, OTHER than this claim made by a likely to be ersatz and Catholic fabricated 'Justin Martyr' that there ever was any actual text known as "MEMOIRS of the Apostles"???
Please. Do produce for us your copy of this mythical text.
It is quite easy to claim that- anything- was 'read' or was 'said' -by the imaginary characters presented within a fabricated religious propaganda document.

I say that there NEVER WAS any real 1st century writer known as Justin Martyr.
Neither 'Justin' nor 'Trypho', simply characters in contrived and fabricated Catholic religious propaganda documents ever 'read' or 'said' any of those things that are attributed to them in these latter composed and forged Catholic propaganda documents.

You have no evidence that there ever was any such text as "The MEMOIRS of the Apostles" or that any "Justin Martyr" or "Trypo the Jew" ever existed.

They and their Catholic Church contrived puppet 'conversations' have no more substance than that 'dialog' which is recorded to have been exchanged between Batman and Lux Luthor.
As far as I know, no one has suggested that he was. 'Justin Martyr' is a literary figment falsly represented to have lived in the 2nd century.
'he' is an ungenuine and fraudulent 'source', one misrepresenting both 'his' time and 'his' alleged 'experiences' and 'conversations'.
In short, a non-contemporary, non-reliable, and NON-CREDIBLE 'source'.

You don't know when any of this shit attributed by The Catholic Church to 'Justin Martyr' was written or by whom.
Your 'credible witness' is not a trustworty source and 'his' writings are NOT CREDIBLE.
Fuck Ehrman. I am not discussing Ehrman's stupid apologetic drivel.

'Suggests'???
Then where the fuck do you come up with making a DECLARATIVE STATEMENT that; "there was NO Jesus story in the FIRST CENTURY and BEFORE c 70 CE"???
You weren't there. And not everything that happens or is spoken gets written down or preserved.
That some gossip may not have been written down or has not survived is not proof positive that no such gossip was ever spoken.

There were hundreds of 'Jesus's' (Josephus even tells us his stories about a few of these many wacky 'Jesus's')

You have no evidence, and no way at all of proving that there were NO 'Jesus' stories being circulated within the first century.
You may as well be trying to claim that there was no gossip nor any stories about any person named 'Nimrod' during the 5th century BCE, or about any person named 'Bill' in circulation in the 20th century.



.

aa5874

The Memoirs are Anonymous. Do you understand what "Anonymous" means??

I can say without fear of contradiction that NO Jesus story and NO Pauline letters have been recovered and dated to the 1st century or before c 70 CE and that Jesus stories have been recovered and dated to the 2nd-3rd century.

That is EXACTLY what I expected--Nothing about Jesus, the disciples and Paul from the 1st century or before c 70 CE.

The NT is a compilation of 2nd century or later Myth Fables based on the RECOVERED DATED Texts.

Again, the Memoirs are Anonymous. We have Recovered DATED Texts and they show NO Jesus story or Pauline writings in the 1st century and before c 70 CE.

That is EXACTLY what I expected because Jesus did NOT exist. Justin's Jesus was produced WITHOUT Sexual union.

Please, tell me who in the Catholic Church wrote propaganda in First Apology and provide your source?? What year was the propaganda written by the Catholic Church??

Your argument about Catholic Church propaganda in the writings attributed to Justin is a NO Source, No Evidence, No Proof argument.