Freethought & Rationalism Archive

philbar · 04-25-2006, 12:49 PM

Crisis In Evolutionary Cosmology — William M. Curtis III

A scientist’s response to recent reports on the universe. Why the evolutionary theory of an ancient expanding universe is wrong.

Dr. Curtis has been active in the creationist movement for the past 19 years. He holds degrees in mechanical engineering (B.S., University of Utah), aeronautical engineering with a minor in nuclear physics (M.S., Southern Methodist University), and theology (Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; Th.D., Trinity Seminary). Dr. Curtis worked for 20 years in the aerospace industry and spent another 20 years as a college professor and pastor. He is founder of the Institute for Scientific and Biblical Research, Lancaster PA, where he presently serves as President and Executive Director.

Introduction

“Crisis in the Cosmos,” and “When Did the Universe Begin?” read the headlines of the cover articles of two widely-read national magazines (Discover: The World of Science, March, 1995, and Time, March 6, 1995). These articles featured the dual crises contradicting evolutionary theories on the age and direction of the expanding universe. Recent data obtained from the Hubble Space Telescope contradicts the previously-held age of the universe. Astronomers Lauer and Postman concluded after five years of research that, “a large chunk of the universe is headed in the wrong direction” (Flamsteed 1995). Tod Lauer, who is stationed at the National Optical Astronomy Observatories in Tucson AZ, states, “We know this was a shocking result. That’s why we spent over a year trying to debunk it ourselves before we went public. If anyone can present a good argument why it’s wrong, we’ll listen” (Lemonick and Nash 1995).

<Edit for copyright. This appears to be a transcription of a 1995 article by Curtis, published in Summer 1995 by Christian Answers. I can't find a source on the Web, but that doesn't mitigate the copyright issue. Since Christian Answers charges money for reprints of the issue in which it was published, the default assumption is that it is not freely reproducible. If philbar can establish to my satisfaction that the piece is freely reproducible I'll restore it.>

show_no_mercy · 04-25-2006, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philbar

Recent data obtained from the Hubble Space Telescope contradicts the previously-held age of the universe.

Doesn't that happen every time the Hubble Constant is re-calculated?

CanoeMan · 04-25-2006, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philbar

Dr. Curtis has been active in the creationist movement for the past 19 years. He holds degrees in mechanical engineering (B.S., University of Utah), aeronautical engineering with a minor in nuclear physics (M.S., Southern Methodist University), and theology (Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; Th.D., Trinity Seminary).

Thank god for the aeronautical engineers! How else could we know anything about cosmology!

show_no_mercy · 04-25-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanoeMan

Thank god for the aeronautical engineers! How else could we know anything about cosmology!

He's also a mechanical engineer, so you know he must know a lot about biology!

Sven · 04-25-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philbar

Dr. Curtis has been active in the creationist movement for the past 19 years. He holds degrees in mechanical engineering (B.S., University of Utah), aeronautical engineering with a minor in nuclear physics (M.S., Southern Methodist University), and theology (Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; Th.D., Trinity Seminary). Dr. Curtis worked for 20 years in the aerospace industry and spent another 20 years as a college professor and pastor.

I see. Lots of credentials, and every single one of them makes him an expert in cosmology.[/sarcasm]

Quote:

“Crisis in the Cosmos,” and “When Did the Universe Begin?” read the headlines of the cover articles of two widely-read national magazines (Discover: The World of Science, March, 1995, and Time, March 6, 1995).

Can I get those articles online?

Quote:

These articles featured the dual crises contradicting evolutionary theories on the age and direction of the expanding universe.

"evolutionary theories"? Sounds hovindesque.

Quote:

Recent data obtained from the Hubble Space Telescope contradicts the previously-held age of the universe. Astronomers Lauer and Postman concluded after five years of research that, “a large chunk of the universe is headed in the wrong direction” (Flamsteed 1995).

Is it possible to obtain the complete reference for this?

Quote:

Tod Lauer, who is stationed at the National Optical Astronomy Observatories in Tucson AZ, states, “We know this was a shocking result. That’s why we spent over a year trying to debunk it ourselves before we went public. If anyone can present a good argument why it’s wrong, we’ll listen” (Lemonick and Nash 1995).

Dito.

BGMA · 04-25-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

He holds degrees in mechanical engineering (B.S., University of Utah), aeronautical engineering with a minor in nuclear physics (M.S., Southern Methodist University), and theology (Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; Th.D., Trinity Seminary).

Conspicuously absent: Astrophysics. Someone who is NOT an expert in a particular field is trying to pronounce on it. Very typical from the creationist crowd, because those who actually go through the effort to properly study the field end up almost exclusively *not* creationists.

******************************************
The Bible of the Good and Moral Atheist

Tom Sawyer · 04-25-2006, 01:27 PM

Why are you posting something about Hubble data from 11 years ago? If there were actual problems found with the current theory, don't you think they'd have been confirmed at some point since then and you'd be able to post more recent findings that confirm the early ones?

GilgameshEnkidu · 04-25-2006, 01:28 PM

The Big Bang and origins of the universe are not 'Evolutionary' theories for starters. Big clue when determining the legitimacy of a creationists opinions.

Creationists, Hovind for example, think that Evolution is a 'religion' started by Satan to mislead people about the earth and cosmos. Thats why we sometimes get terms like 'evolutionary geologists' etc.

RBH · 04-25-2006, 01:37 PM

I believe this is the Discover article referred to. If I recall correctly (and I may be wrong), this was one of the early intimations of the recent discovery that the universe's expansion rate is great enough that the mass in the universe is insufficient to slow and stop and reverse its expansion, so the "Big Crunch" won't happen, and was perhaps an opening shot in the finding that the rate of acceleration of expansion is increasing. I haven't read up on it, but that's my faint memory.

Also, IIRC, the apparent discrepancy between the age of the oldest stars and the expansion age of the universe has since (after 1995) resolved.

The lesson, of course, is not to depend on an 11 year-old popularization for one's cosmological data.

RBH

DiffyQ · 04-25-2006, 02:07 PM

Why is this thread in E/C? It hasn't a thing to do with evolution.

04-25-2006, 12:49 PM	#1
philbar Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Visalia, California Posts: 263	Big Problems for the Big Bang Crisis In Evolutionary Cosmology — William M. Curtis III A scientist’s response to recent reports on the universe. Why the evolutionary theory of an ancient expanding universe is wrong. Dr. Curtis has been active in the creationist movement for the past 19 years. He holds degrees in mechanical engineering (B.S., University of Utah), aeronautical engineering with a minor in nuclear physics (M.S., Southern Methodist University), and theology (Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; Th.D., Trinity Seminary). Dr. Curtis worked for 20 years in the aerospace industry and spent another 20 years as a college professor and pastor. He is founder of the Institute for Scientific and Biblical Research, Lancaster PA, where he presently serves as President and Executive Director. Introduction “Crisis in the Cosmos,” and “When Did the Universe Begin?” read the headlines of the cover articles of two widely-read national magazines (Discover: The World of Science, March, 1995, and Time, March 6, 1995). These articles featured the dual crises contradicting evolutionary theories on the age and direction of the expanding universe. Recent data obtained from the Hubble Space Telescope contradicts the previously-held age of the universe. Astronomers Lauer and Postman concluded after five years of research that, “a large chunk of the universe is headed in the wrong direction” (Flamsteed 1995). Tod Lauer, who is stationed at the National Optical Astronomy Observatories in Tucson AZ, states, “We know this was a shocking result. That’s why we spent over a year trying to debunk it ourselves before we went public. If anyone can present a good argument why it’s wrong, we’ll listen” (Lemonick and Nash 1995). <Edit for copyright. This appears to be a transcription of a 1995 article by Curtis, published in Summer 1995 by Christian Answers. I can't find a source on the Web, but that doesn't mitigate the copyright issue. Since Christian Answers charges money for reprints of the issue in which it was published, the default assumption is that it is not freely reproducible. If philbar can establish to my satisfaction that the piece is freely reproducible I'll restore it.>

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04-25-2006, 01:27 PM	#7
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	Why are you posting something about Hubble data from 11 years ago? If there were actual problems found with the current theory, don't you think they'd have been confirmed at some point since then and you'd be able to post more recent findings that confirm the early ones?

04-25-2006, 01:28 PM	#8
GilgameshEnkidu Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 422	The Big Bang and origins of the universe are not 'Evolutionary' theories for starters. Big clue when determining the legitimacy of a creationists opinions. Creationists, Hovind for example, think that Evolution is a 'religion' started by Satan to mislead people about the earth and cosmos. Thats why we sometimes get terms like 'evolutionary geologists' etc.

04-25-2006, 01:37 PM	#9
RBH Contributor Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 15,407	I believe this is the Discover article referred to. If I recall correctly (and I may be wrong), this was one of the early intimations of the recent discovery that the universe's expansion rate is great enough that the mass in the universe is insufficient to slow and stop and reverse its expansion, so the "Big Crunch" won't happen, and was perhaps an opening shot in the finding that the rate of acceleration of expansion is increasing. I haven't read up on it, but that's my faint memory. Also, IIRC, the apparent discrepancy between the age of the oldest stars and the expansion age of the universe has since (after 1995) resolved. The lesson, of course, is not to depend on an 11 year-old popularization for one's cosmological data. RBH

04-25-2006, 02:07 PM	#10
DiffyQ Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: University of Chicago Posts: 244	Why is this thread in E/C? It hasn't a thing to do with evolution.

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