aa5874

You have confirmed my observation.

You BELIEVE therefore Jesus was REAL.

You have completely FAILED to show or establish the REAL words and REAL activities of Jesus in gMark on which you RELY.

You have FAILED to admit that virtually all activities of Jesus are either implausible or non-historical in canonical Mark and that the very Gospel according to Mark is from the 1st bishop of Rome according to the Roman Church writers.

The historical Jesus is a PHILOSOPHICAL FALLACY. The REAL Jesus is known for the myths and legends about him, but unknown historically.

It would appear Jesus was REALLY a MYTH after reviewing the extant sources of antiquity.

FinBak

Lets say that "jesus" existed and people saw him walk on water..Were these people not on some sort of drug/Alcohol...And they had hallucinations...Not whitnessed a factual event..?

DancesWithCoffeeCups

Please don't derail this thread. There's already a thread addressing this issue here.

Thank you.

kcdad

And you disbelieve, THEREFORE he wasn't real... what's the difference?

Your use of "therefore" is quite disingenuous...

Therefore implies causality... I believe in Tinker Bell, and "poof" she comes into being.

In truth, it is the expressions of reality that cause my belief. I see, I experience, I witness, I hear... therefore I believe.

aa5874

So whatever you believe is true.

Your belief is evidence of the reality of Jesus.

Now, look at your post #610.

.

It was the mythological and implausible characteristics of Jesus in the NT and the Church writings that was believed by Jesus believers.

The teachings of Jesus as found in the NT and Church writings are based on mythology and fiction. Jesus taught his disciples that he would be killed and raised on the third day.

Again, you have no historical data for Jesus external of the mythology and fiction found in the NT and Church writings.

You have confirmed my observation. You believe therefore Jesus was real.

Even today people are dying and killing others for entities that they believe are REAL.

Now, please show me a credible historical source where a character called Jesus or any disciple and Saul/Paul died before the Fall of the Temple.

But, it must be noted that even in the NT when the supposed Jesus was arrested, the disciples were not willing to die for Jesus, they fled, and Peter denied he ever knew or was associated with Jesus.

What teachings do you accept as true? I have repeatedly asked you to identify the real words and activities of Jesus as found in gMark and you have not done so.

Please say what documents you have discovered? Where did you personally find them? By what means were they dated and who are the authos?

Are you not being a bit disengenuous when you imply that you have documents?

There are people who praise entities that are regarded as MYTHS.

Please name an enemy of Jesus (as a man), who have praised Jesus (as a man) while yet his enemy?

And you believe Jesus was non-historical but real, A MOST CONTRADICTORY belief.

IT was Constantine that made Jesus the God of the Roman Empire. The historical records of antiquity will show that before Constantine, Jesus believers were persecuted and regarded as atheists and cannibals but immediately with Constantine, Jesus believers became persecutors and exercised theological power and control and probably helped change the course of civilisation in collusion with the Emperors of Rome.

Once you cannot provide any historical source for your real Jesus I will continue to maintain for eternity or until new information surfaces that the HJ is a most SENSELESS proposition.

mountainman

The Emperor Constantine (who lavishly published Jesus) savagely executed family members and the Head of the Academy of Plato.

jgreen44

"And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm."

- Mark 4:39

Empty yourself of everything.
Let the mind rest at peace.
The ten thousand things rise and fall while the Self watches their return.
They grow and flourish and then return to the source.
Returning to the source is stillness, which is the way of nature.

- Lao Tzu

storytime

Yes aa, a most senseless proposition. It's amazing that Christians will agree that Elijah could not have rode into space on a firey chariot pulled by horses but still insist that Jesus could walk on water, raise himself up from the dead, and then bounce from one location to another impressing the disciples with his cooking skills on a seashore.

The myth has lasted for a long time, and I'm for putting it to rest.

Just say "NO" to Jesus.

kcdad

Constantine did that? Or did he order it? And was it his decision or someone else's that he merely assented to or refused to stop? I won't comment on the "lavishly" and "savagely" as part of the 100% factual history you are relating.

http://www.oodegr.com/english/pagani...t_alithia1.htm

aa5874

But, it is not only Christians that accept the NT as historical that I am addressing. I am also addressing those who, after the rejecting the information about Jesus in the NT, still believe without any credible historical source that Jesus was just a man.

Once the Jesus story is rejected then the HJer MUST PRODUCE some other external credible historical source for the HJ otherwise their HJ is baseless.

So far they cannot produce any historical source for their human only Jesus.

The words or teachings of Jesus in the NT are directly based on his supernatural characteristics and once his divinity is removed then his words evaporate into thin air.

Hundreds of Jews were likely to have been crucified in the 1st century, even Josephus wrote about Jews who were crucified yet there is no indication that any of those crucified were ever deified or deified simply based on their suffering.

There is no indication that any Jew was asked to forgive the sins of Jews and to abandon the Laws of Moses including circumcision just because they were crucified before the Fall of the Temple.

Based on a Pauline writer, the remission of the sins of mankind needed a non-historical event and the non-historical event was performed and witnessed by Paul with over 500 people.

The historical Jesus was not needed for the remission of sins. The HJ is a most SENSELES proposition.