Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-14-2008, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Jeffrey - I was just trying to provide enough information to patcleaver to confuse the issue. Is there anything wrong with the facts or logic?

Umm .. how good or trustworthy, let alone suitably informed, can a claim about what is and is not "likely" vis a vis the origin of Tacitean passage that (a) is grounded in the work of people who are not experts on Tacitus (not to mention who have an axe to grind) and that (b) is made by someone who seems not to have read the original text of source he claims the Tacitus passage comes from and has no direct acquaintance with Tacitean scholarship or Classicists' discussion of the passage, be?

Jeffrey

Ben C Smith · 04-14-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Umm .. how good or trustworthy, let alone suitably informed, can a claim about what is and is not "likely" vis a vis the origin of Tacitean passage that (a) is grounded in the work of people who are not experts on Tacitus (not to mention who have an axe to grind) and that (b) is made by someone who seems not to have read the original text of source he claims the Tacitus passage comes from and has no direct acquaintance with Tacitean scholarship or Classicists' discussion of the passage, be?

Now that is one brainbender of an interrogative sentence!

Ben.

Jeffrey Gibson · 04-14-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Umm .. how good or trustworthy, let alone suitably informed, can a claim about what is and is not "likely" vis a vis the origin of Tacitean passage that (a) is grounded in the work of people who are not experts on Tacitus (not to mention who have an axe to grind) and that (b) is made by someone who seems not to have read the original text of source he claims the Tacitus passage comes from and has no direct acquaintance with Tacitean scholarship or Classicists' discussion of the passage, be?

Now that is one brainbender of an interrogative sentence!

Ben.

It's a gift.

Jeffrey

Ben C Smith · 04-14-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_cave

It looks like this is the passage from Sulpicius Severus?

Yes, and then some.

Quote:

Note that there doesn't appear to be anything in here about Pilate--I have no idea if that means anything or not.

Correct.

But, then again, he has already mentioned the death of Christ in 2.27.5, inter alia.

Ben.

patcleaver · 04-14-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Jeffrey - I was just trying to provide enough information to patcleaver to confuse the issue. Is there anything wrong with the facts or logic?

But this is the reference I was looking for: previous thread on Tacitus

and here's a valid link for Darrell Doughty's course notes on Tacitus: Wayback

Toto, you Wayback link does not work for me. Do you have to be a member or something?

the_cave · 04-15-2008, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben C Smith

Yes, and then some.

Beat me to it by a minute

Didn't realize this was already on your site--thanks for the tip.

Quote:

But, then again, he has already mentioned the death of Christ in 2.27.5, [I]inter alia

I have a hard time imagining an interpolator pulling the procurator info from Josephus, then suddenly switching to the Sulpicius text. It makes much more sense the other way around (which may just mean that it was interpolated prior to c. 400 CE)

patcleaver · 04-20-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

There are those who think that the passage in Tacitus was a medieval forgery.

Note also the case for the passage being inauthentic without necessarily being a forgery:
The Jesus of History: A Reply to Josh McDowell by Gordon Stein, Ph.D.

Note too that, as is shown by his bibliography to his article, Stein, a physiologist, did not consult a single discussion of the Tacitean passage by a Classicist or Tacitean scholar. His authorities are Drews and Wells.

Jeffrey

Is this just a bald appeal to authority?

Is this just an ad hominem assertion?

Define what you mean by classicist. What degrees would he have, what work would he have to have done, please provide a reference or other evidence that your not just making it up.

View Poll Results: What's the source of this passage?
Not sure at all	8	24.24%
Not genuine Tacitus (interpolated)	10	30.30%
Made up by Tacitus	0	0%
Oral source - non-Christian	2	6.06%
Oral source - Christian	8	24.24%
Written source - secular	2	6.06%
Written source - Josephus	3	9.09%
Written source - Christian	0	0%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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