bfniii

i did respond to all these questions. new readers, or yourself, merely have to find (ctrl, f) to locate my responses.



is it possible you aren't clear about God's behavior? since other people seem ok with God's behavior, the issue is at best, debatable. why should other people ascribe to your judgment that God's behavior is bad?



christians believe they find purpose in such disasters and that God has explained, in person, such things. we've been over this already. i'm not sure why you're rehashing this issue.



if we don't have adam and eve's side of the story, whose side do we have?



why is that necessary? is that the only way He can demonstrate His power?



those people feel like God did explain it to their satisfaction.
what would be to your satisfaction?



and what do you mean by tangible? let me guess, regeneration of a missing limb?



other than what the bible says, you are correct. now what?
btw, what kind of evidence could there be anyway?



let's figure out what tangible means to you because i'm sure i know christians who would answer unequivocably yes.



christians feel like God does discuss these issues with them in peson.



i have already discussed the flaws in salvation by merit.



you are just repeating your question without telling me why my response was inadequate.

bfniii

i guess if determinism were the only philosophical idea existing, you might be right.

bfniii

knowledge of possibilities (prescience) and determinism of a fixed outcome are two different things.

bfniii

i am not aware of any post where i made such an assumption. perhaps you could point it out.



no, i am asking you why in the world you would use flawed, myopic, human standards to judge an alleged supernatural being.



the hurricane is neither good nor bad. it was neutral. some people suffered and some people died. why was God unjust for allowing it?



oh my word. what for? go to barnes and noble and find a book on healings. there will be plenty of examples in there. i fail to understand where you are going with this point.



what do you mean by "evidence"?



and what is your definition of questionable?



refused? He told you this Himself?



and how would you know you weren't crazy? because i know some skeptics here whose handle starts with a "s", ends in an "n", has 6 letters, and they are in no particular order sauron, who might call you crazy. :devil3:



look, i've got plenty of questions too. why is that an indictment against God?



please review this thread. i am pretty sure i responded to this clearly.



ctrl-f is not a difficult function, even for new readers. if you want to help them out and continually repeat questions i have responded to, YOU ctrl-f and quote me.



what does that have to do with trusting God?



i have responded to all these points already. instead of repeating your original question, how about responding to my rebuttal?



i have responded to this. why don't you tell me how my reponse was inadequate.



you have yet to tell me how God is inconsistent.

bfniii

you are?



:boohoo:



i don't have a problem finding stuff.



i don't care whether you do or not. you keep repeating questions i have answered and now you complain that the thread is too large for you to find my responses. why didn't you just respond to them the first time i posted them instead of waiting for the thread to get too large for you?



sounds great. when do you start?



yes, i should continually repeat them ad nauseum like you do with your questions.



how is that my fault?


it's just annoying.



they're not helpless, johnny. they can ctrl-f with the best of them



i've already covered that ground



yes, ctrl-f the word "miracle" is so cumbersome.



you mean plan on you repeating your answered questions over and over.



why should i when i have already stated my position in this thread?

bfniii

not you too? and i was just bragging on you.

which questions would you be referring to?

Johnny Skeptic

But this thread is quite large, and other people have discussed miracles other than you. This is quite simple. It would only take you a few minutes to restate why you believe that Jesus healed people, and why you believe that God performs miracle healings today. If you asked me to quote or restate anything that I said on any topic in any thread, I would be courteous and honor your request.

You must be kidding. You have never provided documented medical evidence of even one single recovery from a serious case of multiple sclerosis or cerebral palsy. You have never provided documented medical evidence of even one single restored limb. You have never provided even one single documented case of a miracle healing regarding yourself or anyone else. You have never provided one single reason why God allows natural disasters, and why he does not protect us more than he does. You have never given one single reason why God has the right to send people to hell and torture them any way that he wants to. You have never given even one single reason why God allowed Vincent Humbert to become quadriplegic, blind and mute. You have never given one single reason why God will not accept salvation by merit.

If Christians could provide documented medical evidence of miracle healings, you can bet that they would have gone to the worldwide media decades ago, and of course, that hasn't happened.

A number of weeks ago, you said:

Upon what evidence do you base this plausibility?

I am willing to consider any evidence that you have they do exist.

A good example of love and common decency would be healing all people who have multiple sclerosis, cerebral palsy, Alzheimer's disease, and cancer, and restoring all lost limbs. Anyone with any of those conditions would greatly appreciate God's help, but you can bet that God will not provide them with instant recoveries, or even gradual recoveris. Knowing you, you will ask where should we draw the line. If you ask me this, I will tell you that the definitions of love and common decency vary among humans, but all humans believe that any human, alien, or God who did what I just said would be considered to be loving and decent even if he never did anything else.

Here is a question that you cannot evasively claim that I have asked you before: Why did you become a Christian?

I have agreed to quote or restate any of my arguments, but you have refused to do the same on a number of occasions. So, I will trust that most readers know by now that it is you who have become evasizve and non-courteous and not me. I did as you suggested and went back to the beginning of this thread and typed in the word "miracle." I had to go through a number of pages just to find the word, and when I did, sometimes it was in other people's posts, not yours. Your modus operandi has evasively become "been there, already done that," but I can play this game too. Whenever you claim that you already replied to my post, I will tell you that I have already replied to your post. The only way to clear up these matters is to start all over, but readers are well aware by now that that is the last thing that you would agree to. Readers know that you do not take the defense of the Bible seriously enough to start all over. On the other hand, I take the defense of skepticism seriously enough to start all over. I am content to let readers decide for themselves who the evasive party is here, and who is not commited to the defense of their beliefs.

Johnny Skeptic

Message to bfniii: Since I am well aware that you will continue to be evasive and non-cooperative in this thread and in the thread on the dating of the Tyre prophecy, I challenge you to start a brand new thread. How about a thread on the reliability of a prophecy by Jeremiah or Daniel? In addition to starting a new thread, I suggest that you make a post in the thread that is titled 'By what criteria were the books of the New Testament Canon voted upon'?

Now that I know more about your evasize "already been there, done that" tactics, and your frequent distortions of what I say, I will be much more careful what I say in the future.

I've got you now, bfniii. You can longer claim "already been there, done that."

Johnny Skeptic

Message to bfniii: Regarding your statement that many Christians claim miracle healings, it is not the number of claims that is important, but the quality of the evidence that the claims are based upon. Whether 10 Christians or 10 million Christians claim miracle healings, the evidentiary requirements are exactly the same. Whether one person claims a restored limb (I am not aware of any claims of lost limbs) or one thousand people claim restored limbs, the evidentiary requirements are exactly the same. Even one single well-documented case of a restored limb would most certainly immediately attract the attention of the worldwide media, but we already know that God does not have enough compassion for people with lost limbs to give them new limbs. That would be out of character for him. However, strangely, God usually does care about healing people who have colds. I wonder why. He would need to explain this to my satisfaction before I would accept him.

Please do not forget to reply to my previous posts.

Mars Man

This is a large thread, indeed. I am still reading it, but would, if I may, like to ask if I would be in error for considering 'error and miss in OT and NT' as being the theme of the thread. I do like the title that Johnny Sceptic places there; it seems--at least for now--to be correct.

I will get back in on this one after some more reading of prior posts. Please do excuse my suddenly barging in. I do reason that there is error in the texts we have which make up our Bible of today. Talk with you later !!:wave: