ApostateAbe

I was talking about an adult conversation, not a bunch of quotes and insults. I am happy to stick to quotes and insults, because I am still better at it than you, but it is not what I take to be an adult conversation. My idea of an adult conversation in this forum is the presentation and critical review of arguments and evidence. I have presented those things in this thread, and I would like to see what you have got.

Toto

What about the Pygmy Christ theory, one of GDon's favorite diversions? Has she backed off her uncritical acceptance of a naive anthropologist's account of his time among the noble savages?

Acharya S could be a good resource. I think that's what Robert Price sees in her. But she isn't sufficiently critical of her sources.

GakuseiDon

I review her "Advanced Global Pygmy Civilization" theory here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/gakus...d_pygmies.html

It's not a diversion. I am as interested in how people react to the new myths as the new myths themselves. Probably many here know my theory that our worldviews are undergoing a transformation similar to that found in the First Century BCE. Back then, it was a new interest in Platonism and Neo-Pythagoreanism and their perceived authority that caused new sects and old religions realign their worldviews to be compatible with them. In modern times, it is the authority of science that is driving new myths and worldviews to explode out of the mid 19th Century, including fundamentalism, the New Atheists and "origin myths" like the various Christ Myths.

In my article, I look at Acharya S's writings from a number of sources, including comments like:

Mummified remains of little people or "aliens" are reported to be found in caves or in Tibetan monasteries.

and

"Sky people" were purportedly recorded as having brought advanced culture to the hominids who live on this planet... In inspecting these legends of "sky people," then, it would be most prudent to assume that, if they are true and not mythical, most if not all of these high-fliers were humans who had developed the capacity to fly.

I speculate that Acharya S is hinting that the ancient advanced Pygmies morphed into the aliens commonly known as "Greys". It would be great if Dave31 could verify this.

She has much more evidence about ancient Pygmies spreading stories about Pygmy Christs being born from a Pygmy virgin around the world. Much much more. It's fascinating to read, seeing her connect the dots. I think a thorough study would be useful in helping to understand how old disparate myths come together to form new ones. And then see how they spread. In some ways, Dave31 and Earl Doherty are new Pauls.

Price does make that comment.

aa5874

The existence or non-existence of Pygmies is not part of this thread and cannot advance the HJ theory that Jesus was just a man.

In the NT, Jesus MORPHED or Transfigured with the Resurrected Dead Moses and Elijah and his FACE shone like the SUN. I would like GakuseIdon to VERIFY this or confirm it is FALSE.

The existence or non-existence of "sky people" is NOT part of this thread and cannot advance the HJ theory that Jesus was just a man.

In the NT, Jesus floated into the SKY or into CLOUDS when he was supposed to be dead. I would like GakuseIdon to verify this or confirm if it is False

It is already KNOWN that some Christians of antiquity BELIEVED Phantoms, not Pygmies, existed WITHOUT Birth and Flesh and that other Christians, even TODAY, Believe Jesus was the Child of a Ghost, walked on water, transfigured and was RAISED from the dead.

Christians Believe ALL sorts of MYTHS.

The MYTH theory is WELL SUPPORTED by the actual WRITTEN evidence since in antiquity Romans and Greeks the very people who accepted that Jesus was the Child of a Ghost and a virgin ALSO believed in numerous other MYTH fables and SACRIFICED to MYTH Gods.

It is CLEAR that the Jesus Christ Myth was the WINNING Myth Fable in the 4th century and REPLACED virtually ALL other MYTHS.

We know from WRITTEN sources of antiquity that CHRISTIANS did NOT NEED a human to believe Gods such as Jesus did exist because even if Jesus was human he could NOT resurrect and the Pauline Jesus MUST resurrect for the REMISSION of Sins.

Dave31

Well, at least you concede that it's "one of GDon's favorite diversions," but, nothing to say about the sloppy and egregious errors by Richard Carrier? Typical that he never be held accountable, isn't it?

Dr. Jean Pierre Hallet has received over 100 awards and honors including being nominated for the Nobel Peace prize in the 70's for his work with the Pygmies. Hallet is discussed in at least 20 books published by university presses. He is called in one a "Belgian colonial official." That position would indicate one of authority for someone trustworthy. He is called a "Belgian anthropologist" or "anthropologist" a number of times. It is therefore not a mistake nor does it have anything to do with being "naive" in any way whatsoever. So, like GDon your criticism on this issue is simply not accurate. It's more like GDon tossing spaghetti on the wall hoping something will stick. Epic fail.

Acharya has responded to the Pygmy criticism at her forum in this thread. GDon was quote-mining out of context to suit his own pseudo-skeptical needs and you bought into it. Her work simply doesn't stand or fall on this Pygmy issue.

Pygmies in 'The Christ Conspiracy'

What books of hers have you actually read, Toto?

Find errors in these articles and I'll be sure to send them to Acharya for correction:

The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (August 2010)

Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'

Were George Washington and Thomas Jefferson Jesus Mythicists?

Dave31

GakuseiDon, that's about the level of your comprehension of Acharya's work. You take different trains of thought and, in your haste to smear her with whatever crap you can come up with, you put them together. That foolish comment alone destroys your credibility. The idea that she was saying that "ancient advanced Pygmies morphed into the aliens commonly known as "Greys" is a complete divorce from reality.

ApostateAbe

Thanks for clearing that up, Dave. There IS a limit to Acharya's credulity. What a relief. I would like to know what Acharya S was actually getting at. Does Acharya S really think that "sky people" were recorded as having brought advanced culture to the hominids who live on this planet? And does she think they were possibly true and not just mythical?

aa5874

Jesus was the WORD that was God, the Creator and the Child of a Ghost and FLOATED into the SKY so it is really IRRELEVANT whether Acharya S is wrong or right.

Don't you even understand that the Biography of Jesus Christ has been DOCUMENTED and he was a Ghost.

Vorkosigan

That's hilarious, Don.

GakuseiDon

Well, it's not meant to be. I'm referring to the duality of "mythos" vs "logos", as popularized by Karen Armstrong in her book "The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_for_God

Armstrong's central case rests on the confusion between mythos and logos, using these in the technical sense suggested by Johannes Slok.[2] Myth concerns "what was thought to be timeless and constant in our existence...Myth was not concerned with practical matters but with meaning".[3] By contrast "Logos was the rational, pragmatic and scientific thought that enabled men and women to function well in the world". In religion, logos appears in legal systems and practical action. By the eighteenth century, "people in Europe and America began to think that logos was the only means to truth and began to discount mythos as false and superstitious." Armstrong suggests that fundamentalists have turned their mythos into logos using the mindset of the modern scientific age.[4]
...
This leads to the modern period described in part two, “Fundamentalism”, when there was a growing adoption of a literalist interpretation of scripture in the United States, which eventually gave rise to The Fundamentals, a series of 12 volumes refuting modern ideas published shortly before and during the World War I, of which 3 million copies were distributed to every pastor, professor and theological student across America by the largesse of oil millionaires. Though this led to a distinctive ideology, it was not till the 1980s that it emerged as a political force.

In Judaism, the growth of Zionism was given its biggest boost by the Holocaust which led to the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948. Although many traditional Jews migrated there, the most conservative rejected the secular interpretation of Zionism and it wasn't until the emergence of Gush Emunim after the Yom Kippur War in 1974 that fundamentalism emerged in Israel as a political force.

In Islam, fundamentalism did not emerge until modernization had taken hold, first in Egypt with the creation of the Muslim Brotherhood by Hasan al-Banna. Armstrong traces the development of Sunni fundamentalism under Sayyid Qutb and Shia fundamentalism under Ayatollah Khomeini.

Fundamentalism is an expression of logos, which leads to the idea that the Bible must be literally true, or it is rubbish. That's an idea shared by the New Atheists. Modern "origin myths" (I would put Intelligent Design, Daniken's "Ancient Astronaut" theory, Acharya S's "astrotheology" theory and Doherty's "sublunar realm" nonsense in this group) wear the mantle of "science" (or perhaps "TRUE science"), appealing to our modern sense of logos. There's more to it than that, of course, but that's the base.

Two thousand years ago, the push was towards incorporating Plato's notion of a remote and perfect God interacting with a world of matter. Christianity leapt this gap in the Second Century, but many of the mystery religions and old superstitions didn't. As the neo-Platonists gained popularity, so did Christianity.

I feel in my gut that there is a "New God" out there, born around 100 years ago, which is in harmony with the modern zeitgeist and which will sweep the world. What the New God is, I have no idea. The only Western candidates I can think of are Scientology and a "scientized" Buddhism, along the lines expressed by Sam Harris. But whoever the New God is, it will be "scientized". As scientism gains popularity, so will the New God.