Doug Shaver

Sometime in the 15th century BCE, for the reasons stated previously in this thread.

All those odd numbers in the Bible are all we have to work with. Except for a few geographic and political references, there is no non-biblical corroboration for anything in the Exodus story.

Yes, there are. It does not follow that all the people mentioned in the Bible actually existed. A historical Moses, although certainly not impossible, appears to be highly improbable.

Anat

I think that depends on how similar the supposed historical Moses is required to be to the one described in the Bible. A guy who led a few dozens of escaped slaves, maybe. A guy who led millions through the desert, camped for 38 years in Kadesh Barnea and whose death was followed by a Blitzkrieg conquest of the hill country - no way.

DrZoidberg

I used to make the same Akhenaten -> monotheism -> judaism connection before I learned that the Jews (ie Moses too) were still polytheist at the time of the Exodus (whenever that was). Even if you posit that Moses was a Akhenaten priest, leading a largely polytheist group of people, and that this monotheism disseminated over time, it still doesn't fit the picture. From archaeological evidence we can deduce that there was a slow evolution from polytheism to henothiesm. The Jews didn't become firmly monotheist sometime around the birth of Christ. Akhenatens sun cult was clearly monotheist and has very little to do with what later became Judaism. I don't think it really fits into the evolutionary pattern of Abrahamic monotheism. What I gather, this is the generally accepted scholarly view too.

Historically we know sun cults have popped up seemingly from nowhere, and vanished as quickly. Which isn't that strange, because it just sits there in the sky and gives us warmth and light, albeit being a bit boring as far as myths go. I have no problems accepting Akhenatens cult following this pattern.

So basically, I belonged to your team, but over time I've become convinced I was wrong.

Doug Shaver

In my judgment, someone would have to have done more than just lead a few slaves escaping out of Egypt to qualify as the historical Moses.

Similarly, I think it takes more to qualify as the historical King Arthur than to have won a few battles and have been named Arthur.

Sheshbazzar

My position as a believer in YHWH, is that degenerates amongst those called 'Hebrews', against previous concept and practice
anthropomorphised and placed 'words' into 'his' mouth to make 'him', into a 'god' in a similitude of the 'gods' of the surrounding nations.
Thereby effectively turning 'him' into their talking puppet and mouthpiece.
These wrote invented stories and a false and invented national 'history', then employed it as a means of obscuring and distorting earlier simpler Hebrew beliefs.

'Moses' and his 'Torah' were political fabrications fashioned to disenfranchise all who held the original faith and would not knuckle under to these political machinations, and by means of which fabrications they 'justified' their murderous trials against these 'unbelievers' and 'unfaithful' opponents in their midst. On this was built all The Law, the Prophets, and the NT, a shakey lying subterfuge which for ages has undermined and prevailed against the high ethics and principals of true YHWHisim.

show_no_mercy

If the purpose of Moses' entire [narrative] existence is falsified, then I see no reason to conclude that Moses existed in any sense. It doesn't seem as though the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt, made a flashy exit, and embarked on a whirlwind conquest of Canaan. The people that eventually became Jews seem to have been Canaanites themselves who developed their own distinct culture.

If the only evidence that we had for a Moses was a story about him being Native American chieftan who went to war with [The] President and drowned President and 2,000 American troops in the Delaware, how can we say that this Moses existed?

steve_bnk

Our constitution is a political fabrication often discussed as comming from one individual such as Jefferson.

If it were not for the state of printing at the time of the revolution, the religious might be claiming George Washington didn't row across the Delaware, he parted the waters in god's name.

There was probably an historical Moses. You only have to look around today as to how a tale grows from nothing.

All cultures in the times had myths. A symbolic myth I grew up was the mythical American cowboy.

I've always thought that the Noah tale was based on a real watery adventure. The DC took a stab at profiling who the person may have been, where, and what the flood was likey to have been. A trader caught in a 100 year storm and flood on a river, his barges loaded with goods.animals, and family. They even projected where he may have ended up with his family getting a new start.

When the Indian Ocean tsunami hit, there ws a local culture that had an old tale of god periodiclay destroying snd restoring their 'world' in a great flood. Part of it was a warning, if the ocean started to pull back, head inland, which some people did.

An ancient remembered myth for which no one remembered the source.

sugarhitman

I have to say, this contradicts your claimed belief in YHWH.

Juststeve

Does it make sense to speak of Moses in any context other than that of the Exodus? The Exodus is something that should have left a good deal of evidence to finds if it had occurred the way that it’s depicted in the Bible. So far that evidence has not been found so I doubt the Exodus occurred. Therefore I also doubt the existence of a Moses if he is defined as the one who lead the Hebrews out of slavery in Egypt.

Steve

sugarhitman

David didnt exist, Solomon, Jesus, on and on it goes. Funny that Josephus was complaining of this very thing in Against Apion, about Non-Jews denying Jewish history...basically ignoring them...It seems true in our time as well.


Moses existed, and so did all the rest of the Jewish leaders.