Freethought & Rationalism Archive

No Robots · 11-17-2006, 10:44 AM

Some more sources on the Christian inscription at Pompeii:

Carlo Giordano, Isidoro Kahn, The Jews in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Stabiae and in the Cities of Campania Felix. 3rd edition revised and enlarged by Laurentino Garcêa y Garcêa; translated by Wilhelmina F. Jashemski. Reprint 2003. Rome: Bardi, 2001.

From a review of the foregoing:

Chapter V is the book's most useful section, providing extensive discussions of various pieces of graffiti: the names Sodom and Gomorrah; a ROTAS-SATOR word-square; a text which seems to include the word Christianos

Floyd V. Filson, Were There Christians in Pompeii? Biblical Archaeologist, Vol. 2, No. 2 (May, 1939), pp. 13-16.

Wm. Romaine Newbold, Five Transliterated Aramaic Inscriptions. American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 30, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1926), pp. 288-329.

(I haven't actually read Filson or Newbold).

Herculaneum house church.

The second facsimile of the inscription was made in 1862 by Minervini and published in 1864. De Rossi was another archaeologist to witness the inscription. See here (French).

krosero · 11-17-2006, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I just talked to Carrier and he said that he is currently working on a paper that aims to show that the Josephus quote in question "Jesus brother of James" is indeed an interpolation. So presumably this will go into a peer reviewed journal, and we will see what happens.

In my last blog post I've laid out some elements that IMO should be present in any case for interpolation. I'll be very interested to read his essay; and I don't know how wide a readership he's aiming for (presumably everybody), but if he's aiming to persuade widely then he may find my post useful. I will certainly listen to what he has to say.

Regards,
Kevin Rosero

Ben C Smith · 11-17-2006, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krosero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi

I just talked to Carrier and he said that he is currently working on a paper that aims to show that the Josephus quote in question "Jesus brother of James" is indeed an interpolation. So presumably this will go into a peer reviewed journal, and we will see what happens.

In my last blog post I've laid out some elements that IMO should be present in any case for interpolation. I'll be very interested to read his essay; and I don't know how wide a readership he's aiming for (presumably everybody), but if he's aiming to persuade widely then he may find my post useful. I will certainly listen to what he has to say.

Regards,
Kevin Rosero

I think Ken Olson is also going to argue for forgery in his dissertation at Duke.

Ben.

BlessNot · 11-22-2006, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neglesaks

Is there any solid evidence that the person Jesus Christ of Nazareth ever existed?

None whatsoever. He is a total myth.

wiccan windwalker · 11-23-2006, 12:04 AM

None whatsoever? a rather "perfect knowledge" hyperbole dont you think? A person can legally be convicted of a capital crime in the U.S. based on circumstantial evidence alone. Is that "solid"? semantics aside, "none whatsoever" is not accurate, imho

RAFH · 11-23-2006, 01:34 AM

If you got it, present it.

Amaleq13 · 11-24-2006, 08:28 AM

Please return to a discussion that is relevant to the thread. Thanks in advance.

Amaleq13, moderator

Toto · 11-24-2006, 03:00 PM

An overly personal digression/spat has been split off and moved Elsewhere (here.)

aa5874 · 11-24-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

I'd like to know why apologists keep presenting evidence for Christianity as evidence for a human Jesus? No one questions the existence of Christianity,

If these apologist were to read 'Against Heresies' by Irenaeus, they would realise that there were believers in the Christ who were of the view that the Christ was an apparition, that is, the Christ only appeared to be human, but was in fact a spirit.

As Irenaeus described, in Against Heresies, there many hypotheses about the Christ. Some believers claimed the Christ was un-begotten, other believers claimed he was begotten. There were other sects of believers that claimed the Christ was a Spirit and entered the body of Jesus at the baptism by John the Baptist.

Irenaeus also claims that there were magicians who claimed be the Christ, some others that believed the Christ was the function of mathematical equations related to the zodiac and the degrees of a circle.

It appears, before Constantine, pre- nicene, the term 'Christian' meant anything from scoundrel to magician.

11-17-2006, 10:44 AM	#121
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	Some more sources on the Christian inscription at Pompeii: Carlo Giordano, Isidoro Kahn, The Jews in Pompeii, Herculaneum, Stabiae and in the Cities of Campania Felix. 3rd edition revised and enlarged by Laurentino Garcêa y Garcêa; translated by Wilhelmina F. Jashemski. Reprint 2003. Rome: Bardi, 2001. From a review of the foregoing: Chapter V is the book's most useful section, providing extensive discussions of various pieces of graffiti: the names Sodom and Gomorrah; a ROTAS-SATOR word-square; a text which seems to include the word Christianos Floyd V. Filson, Were There Christians in Pompeii? Biblical Archaeologist, Vol. 2, No. 2 (May, 1939), pp. 13-16. Wm. Romaine Newbold, Five Transliterated Aramaic Inscriptions. American Journal of Archaeology, Vol. 30, No. 3 (Jul. - Sep., 1926), pp. 288-329. (I haven't actually read Filson or Newbold). Herculaneum house church. The second facsimile of the inscription was made in 1862 by Minervini and published in 1864. De Rossi was another archaeologist to witness the inscription. See here (French).

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11-23-2006, 12:04 AM	#125
wiccan windwalker Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oldsmar,Florida Posts: 228	None whatsoever? a rather "perfect knowledge" hyperbole dont you think? A person can legally be convicted of a capital crime in the U.S. based on circumstantial evidence alone. Is that "solid"? semantics aside, "none whatsoever" is not accurate, imho

11-23-2006, 01:34 AM	#126
RAFH Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kahaluu, Hawaii Posts: 6,400	If you got it, present it.

11-24-2006, 08:28 AM	#127
Amaleq13 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 7,816	Please return to a discussion that is relevant to the thread. Thanks in advance. Amaleq13, moderator

11-24-2006, 03:00 PM	#128
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	An overly personal digression/spat has been split off and moved Elsewhere (here.)

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