Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vorkosigan · 03-06-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

The Gospel of Mark is non-literary, having a simple and popular style;

ROFL!

Quote:

What can you infer about the author from these stylistic features of the Gospel of Mark?
From the above data, one can infer that the author’s first language was not Greek, and he did not have a Hellenistic education, so that he did not have enough facility in Greek to write in a highly literary style.

So how did he learn Greek, then. By osmosis?

judge · 03-06-2005, 08:51 PM

(added in edit)
For those who believe Mark was penned in greeK.

I wonder why do we have the apparently "non greek" syntax in the greek of Mark?

From the above link again:

Quote:

By this is meant that Semitic syntactical features influence the form of the Greek. For example, corresponding to Hebrew and Aramaic syntax, frequently verbs are found at the beginning of a sentence in the Gospel of Mark. Two other examples of a Semitic syntactical feature is the abundant presence of asyndeta, the placing of clauses together without the use of conjunctions, and parataxis, the joining of clauses with the conjunction kai (and) (imitative of the waw-consecutive in Hebrew and Aramaic).

Amaleq13 · 03-06-2005, 10:17 PM

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Originally Posted by judge

The same can't be argued for Aramaic words that still are left even in the greek versions like "talitha kum" mwaning little girl arise.

How is this a "loan word"?

The command accompanies a miracle and is, by virtue of that fact, a magical incantation. Aren't there other examples of Aramaic being used as the incantation associated with a miraculous display of power?

Makes me wonder if the author didn't intentionally choose to use Aramaic in those instances for that specific purpose.

Vorkosigan · 03-07-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Kirby
Is there a plausibility that the author of Mark knew Aramaic?

Hard to tell. Craig Evans, as you're probably aware, has been arguing that Mark drew on Aramaic targums. The writer of Mark seems to be aware of oral lore that may have been handed around in Aramaic -- for example, the expansions of the Esther story in which Vashti's head is served on a platter, which seem to serve as the basis of JBap's death. He may know of some rather arcane Jewish practices, such as immersion of dining couches because they are ritually impure -- some of the variant readings of Mark 7:4 have "pitchers, kettles, and couches" instead of "cups, pots and vessels of bronze." There is a pun in Hebrew in Mark 12 but of course it is impossible prove that he actually knew it was a pun when he produced it. All this points to the possibility that he knew Aramaic, because he knew Judaism. But of course, he need only have known Greek to produce the Gospel of Mark.

judge · 03-07-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

The command accompanies a miracle and is, by virtue of that fact, a magical incantation. Aren't there other examples of Aramaic being used as the incantation associated with a miraculous display of power?

.

"Little girl arise" is a magical incantation?

Amaleq13 · 03-07-2005, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

"Little girl arise" is a magical incantation?

If it is spoken as the girl is magically healed, yes.

Chris Weimer · 03-07-2005, 02:52 PM

BTW - if Craig Evans even closely resembles Floyd Jones (that is, the LXX is a post Christian redaction to the scriptures and the NT quotes are merely Targums) then it is load of crap considering substantial Septuagintal readings have been found at the Dead Sea Scrolls site. :down:

Chris Weimer · 03-07-2005, 02:55 PM

Judge, do you know Greek? If you don't know Greek then how can you comment on the Aramaisms in Mark? Yes Mark uses kai excessively, but his overall grammar is very Koine. And then Luke-Acts is almost a literary dialect of Greek, and Matthew often uses the LXX for his grammar, yet still is Greek. Compare the LXX and the NT and you'll get only one book that was possibly written in Aramaic: the Apocalypse.

judge · 03-07-2005, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

BTW - if Craig Evans even closely resembles Floyd Jones (that is, the LXX is a post Christian redaction to the scriptures and the NT quotes are merely Targums) then it is load of crap considering substantial Septuagintal readings have been found at the Dead Sea Scrolls site. :down:

I don't think this is the case, he writes in the above link.

Quote:

Did Jesus recognize a specific text form of scripture? It does not appear so, for his usage of scripture is allusive, paraphrastic, and-so far as it can be ascertained-eclectic. We find agreement with the proto-Masoretic text, with the Hebrew under-lying the Septuagint (perhaps even the Septuagint itself), and with the Aramaic para-phrase.

Bold type is mine.

Chris Weimer · 03-07-2005, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

"Little girl arise" is a magical incantation?

Yes, and that goes hand in hand with the explosive magical incantations arising in Hellenistic Greece.

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03-07-2005, 02:52 PM	#67
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	BTW - if Craig Evans even closely resembles Floyd Jones (that is, the LXX is a post Christian redaction to the scriptures and the NT quotes are merely Targums) then it is load of crap considering substantial Septuagintal readings have been found at the Dead Sea Scrolls site. :down:

03-07-2005, 02:55 PM	#68
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Judge, do you know Greek? If you don't know Greek then how can you comment on the Aramaisms in Mark? Yes Mark uses kai excessively, but his overall grammar is very Koine. And then Luke-Acts is almost a literary dialect of Greek, and Matthew often uses the LXX for his grammar, yet still is Greek. Compare the LXX and the NT and you'll get only one book that was possibly written in Aramaic: the Apocalypse.

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