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Old 12-31-2008, 08:25 AM   #41
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Which make me continue to deduce that the Pauline epistles are closer to a historical representation of the thinking of the early church and the Gospels are written to enforce one groups doctrine of another by placing words of agreement in the mouth of a historical Jesus.
I still lean towards an eschatological MJ vs the gospel HJ, but who knows which came first? Jews were still writing apocalyptic after the first revolt (eg. II Esdras). If the Revelation of John reflects primitive Christianity, they apparently started with a heavenly or mythological saviour yet to make his first earthly advent.
It is almost certain that there was no tradition of expectation of a spiritual Messiah by the Jews up to or around 133 CE.

Simon bar Kokchba was regarded as the physical Messiah and did remove Roman rule for sometime.

The Jews expected a physical Messiah who would save them from their oppressors, the Romans, not their sins, they already had a system for atonement of sins in place ordered by the God of the Jews.

The notion is just ludicrous to think that there was a man walking around Judea asking Jews to worship him as the Son of the God of the Jews, forgive their sins and that he would give them eternal life when they were dead, when in the writings of Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews book 18, the Jews were willing to have their necks chopped off to prevent effigies of Tiberius to be placed in the Temple.

And these things happened under Pilate, when the Jews were willing to have their necks chopped off, around the time of the supposed man who was asking Jews to worship him as a God.
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