stephan huller

Jude 17 Ὑμεῖς δὲ ἀγαπητοί, μνήσθητε τῶν ῥημάτων τῶν προειρημένων ὑπὸ τῶν ἀποστόλων τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 3:2 μνησθῆναι τῶν προειρημένων ῥημάτων ὑπὸ τῶν ἁγίων προφητῶν καὶ τῆς τῶν ἀποστόλων ὑμῶν ἐντολῆς τοῦ κυρίου καὶ σωτῆρος,

sotto voce

Some of it is similar. No doubt it was common knowledge, and possibly memorised.

Forgery, flatulence.

We's gorn off topic, eh, stephan.

stephan huller

In summa - Jude 17 seems to argue that the heretics who partook of the 'bad' agape used Moses as an example of someone who partook of this rite and did not see the Final Judgement. In other words, Michael took Moses's body into heaven before the Judgement so - presumably - those who partake in the agape will not be judged. The same interpretation is developed by Clement in the Letter to Theodore. I haven't checked Origen or Didymus.

stephan huller

A more interesting question for me is whether the Sadducees who are said to have denied the resurrection were also connected with this notion. I have always found it difficult to believe there were Jews who didn't believe in the Final Judgement.

sotto voce

Of course they believed it. They just didn't want the poor to believe it.

stephan huller

And interestingly too the Samaritans tie the 'brother making of Moses and Aaron' (zimmot = binding etc) with the 'redemption' of the half-shekel. There are two dates that half-shekel is collected, each is made into a 'zimmot' (= one before Passover, the other before the feast of the tabernacles). Originally there was just the one zimmot of Passover, probably on the New Year (when the collections were due). In other words, the same term that Marcionites and other heretics used to describe their purchase from the devil (apolytrosis) was originally connected with the god in the burning bush (= Jesus or 'yesh' = itay cf. John 8;58, 'I am yesh' cf. the Sahidic version 'I am being').

sotto voce

Pope stephan. Hear ye him.

Pope stephan. Hear ye him.

Loopy poop.

stephan huller

Well as you have no analysis of your own to string together the references in Jude, I want to thank you for at least accompanying me while I tried to make sense of the material. I sincerely mean that. You may be crazy but it's still company.

Solo

Thanks for the report. Bon voyage ! :huh:

Jiri

sotto voce

Oh, funny. I explained it to you yesterday, and now you cunningly invert; having desperately attempted to re-invent Jude! You extract urine at a professional level, stephan.

Or should that be processional.

Oh, get on with you. :blush: