Johann_Kaspar

Sorry, Toto, I will not summarize the evidence. Unless one will read several languages (English, German, French, Italian... beside Hebrew, Greek and Latin), it will be meaningless for him to try to study this field of knowledge. Many books and articles are not translated and won't be. Someone discarding/ignoring what was written in another language can't make progress.

By the way, the wiki presentation is very poor to say the least, crap to be blunt (would not be surprised if a mainstream xian wrote that). Both Dubourg (a non believer) and Tresmontant (a xian) are presenting lots of evidence for a gospel written first in Hebrew, the Greeks being mere translations.

And there is a proof that they are translations, it is right here in the texts like the nose in the middle of the face.

hatsoff

Hmm. I seem to remember reading otherwise, but now I can't find any such sources. I think you might be right, after all. I think I might also owe Spin an apology--though I do think he could have been a little more polite in his argumentation.

There is one quote on earlychristianwritings that suggests Luke may not have been initially anonymous, but that's far from a scholarly presence on the issue. Any help would be appreciated.

spin

I usually refer back to the actual post I am referring to in order to get the continuity.

So you don't think that the Matthean text is often better Greek than Mk?

I should really have put "improved" in quotes, because improvements like making the blind men two and putting Jesus on two animals aren't really improvements. The correction of the Aramaic hlwi to the Hebrew hli is an improvement.


Yup, as I said, a Latin influenced Greek. This makes sense to a well-educated in Greek, Roman upper-class audience, but what other language did a Latin audience have access to?


It doesn't seem to be in the literature. There is merely a vocal few.


If you care to elucidate your thought...


spin

spin

No apology is necessary, hatsoff. In the struggle to write posts one can often not get the tone right or often go astray.


spin

Malachi151

I don't see any further point to this thread. We made the case for Greek. Most of the points in favor of Greek still haven't been addressed or certainly not refuted. No one has made the case for any other language, all we have been told is that we can't possibly talk intelligently about this subject unless we know like 5 other languages and read several dozen books that are only printed in one language and have never been referenced by anyone in English, and oh, by the way, unless we can read the oldest manuscripts ourselves in Greek, Hebrew, Syriac, and Latin, then we should just never talk about this subject again, etc., etc.

Oh, and by the way, even though the persons making these claims know that others can't read all these languages, and have no way to reference any of these materials, they also refuse to summarize them as well

Yeah, nice try, but this is a useless thread, and as I said, the case for Greek has never been refuted in this thread.

Johann_Kaspar

Go on <edit> and be happy!:wave:

judge

There isAramaic Peshitta plent to refute here... good luck.


As the originateor of this thread aksed for the evidence in favor of the greek I have not hijacked his thread.

Hows this? I challenge to you to a debate on the topic..Aramaic vs Greek.

Waddya say?

Malachi151

We've already looked at this site, its a pathetic joke. If that's your best evidence, no wonder you refuse to make the case for Aramaic.

We've been trying to debate Aramaic vs. Greek in this thread, but you and others refuse to do so. You can start whatever threads you want if you feel the need to do it in another thread, thats' fine, go make you case if you wish, just stop coming here and saying "No its not", and then posting links to crappy lame conspiracy theory Aramaic first websites which plainly make no sense.

judge

I'm not refusing to make the case. I challenging you to a debate.

If you aren't willing to take me on then fine.

all the best

Johann_Kaspar

A formal debate! Wow, great! But you will not get it... Too easy to smash down Malachi's prejudice on this subject.