Freethought & Rationalism Archive

burning flames · 07-09-2007, 04:21 PM

for christianity, I mean.

was it in 1300? earlier?

David B · 07-09-2007, 04:27 PM

Earlier, unless someone comes up with something that would really surprise me.

But why confine yourself to Christianity?

OK, if you treat it as an individual religion, it's the biggest, and a fairly old one.

But when you break it up into sects, some of them are pretty small, and the southern Baptists and their ilk are pretty minuscule.

What's so special about christianity, that makes it more important than the other religions, past, present and, sadly, probably future?

David B (is an equal opportunity non believer)

Toto · 07-09-2007, 04:52 PM

There are some graphic descriptions of Hell in the Revelation of John, dated to about 90 CE. But John does appear to have taken some psychedelics. I think the gospels have Jesus talking about hellfire. But there is some controvery about what Hell consists of.

Start with these threads:

Hell

Hell in the Bible (and the Qur'an)

Origin of Hell and the Bible

Hell . . . from where and why?

khalimirov · 07-09-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

But John does appear to have taken some psychodelics.

What's the evidence for this?

Exciter · 07-09-2007, 05:32 PM

Why 1300?

Exciter · 07-09-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalimirov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

But John does appear to have taken some psychodelics.

What's the evidence for this?

I'll have to look up the exact passage but, he eats something equivalent to blotter acid, but then again ymmv.

David B · 07-09-2007, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalimirov

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

But John does appear to have taken some psychodelics.

What's the evidence for this?

The evidence is not good. It consists of the Book of Revelation.

What else? Nothing much else, AFAIK, is known about the guy.

And there is, I think, a reasonable alternative hypothesis to the psychedelics one.

That the guy was barking mad.

David B (in the interests of avoiding false dichotomies, notes that 'psychedelics' and 'barking mad' are not mutually exclusive)

burning flames · 07-09-2007, 07:25 PM

do you think these sites accurately interpert the "true meaning" of the bible?

http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/

www.tentmaker.org

lpetrich · 07-09-2007, 08:47 PM

The New Testament rather clearly describes a realm of eternal torment where the wicked will be sent -- you will get burned alive and eaten by worms in it forever and ever and ever.

However, the writers of the Old Testament had believed in a very shadowy afterlife, to the extent that they believed in one at all.

The notion is likely pagan, borrowed from Greeks and Zoroastrians; Hellenic paganism features Tartarus, a realm of punishment for the wicked.

And even earlier, Egyptians had believed that you risk being eaten by the monster Ammit if you are wicked.

burning flames · 07-09-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpetrich

The New Testament rather clearly describes a realm of eternal torment where the wicked will be sent -- you will get burned alive and eaten by worms in it forever and ever and ever.

However, the writers of the Old Testament had believed in a very shadowy afterlife, to the extent that they believed in one at all.

The notion is likely pagan, borrowed from Greeks and Zoroastrians; Hellenic paganism features Tartarus, a realm of punishment for the wicked.

And even earlier, Egyptians had believed that you risk being eaten by the monster Ammit if you are wicked.

so noting that the greek words translated into hell are not describing an afterlife scenario does nothing?

07-09-2007, 04:21 PM	#1
burning flames Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: florida Posts: 887	when did a belief in hell start? for christianity, I mean. was it in 1300? earlier?

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07-09-2007, 04:27 PM	#2
David B Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Wales Posts: 11,620	Earlier, unless someone comes up with something that would really surprise me. But why confine yourself to Christianity? OK, if you treat it as an individual religion, it's the biggest, and a fairly old one. But when you break it up into sects, some of them are pretty small, and the southern Baptists and their ilk are pretty minuscule. What's so special about christianity, that makes it more important than the other religions, past, present and, sadly, probably future? David B (is an equal opportunity non believer)

07-09-2007, 04:52 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There are some graphic descriptions of Hell in the Revelation of John, dated to about 90 CE. But John does appear to have taken some psychedelics. I think the gospels have Jesus talking about hellfire. But there is some controvery about what Hell consists of. Start with these threads: Hell Hell in the Bible (and the Qur'an) Origin of Hell and the Bible Hell . . . from where and why?

07-09-2007, 05:32 PM	#5
Exciter Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: America? Posts: 1,168	Why 1300?

07-09-2007, 07:25 PM	#8
burning flames Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: florida Posts: 887	do you think these sites accurately interpert the "true meaning" of the bible? http://www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com/ www.tentmaker.org

07-09-2007, 08:47 PM	#9
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	The New Testament rather clearly describes a realm of eternal torment where the wicked will be sent -- you will get burned alive and eaten by worms in it forever and ever and ever. However, the writers of the Old Testament had believed in a very shadowy afterlife, to the extent that they believed in one at all. The notion is likely pagan, borrowed from Greeks and Zoroastrians; Hellenic paganism features Tartarus, a realm of punishment for the wicked. And even earlier, Egyptians had believed that you risk being eaten by the monster Ammit if you are wicked.

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