Originally Posted by Thomas II

Are you saying that they could have been hallucinating due to mushrooms, cannabis, or similar?
Were these available in Judea 2000 years ago?
Were these drugs used for religious or spiritual purposes at the time?

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Have you considered some sort of mystical "ascent"? I am thinking along the lines of Hechaloth and Merkabah mysticism, where a mystic controls their breathing patterns and repeats constantly changing passages from the scriptures until he goes into a sort of trance.

In the later, better documented phase of this kind of mysticism, the sage feels as if he is ascending through the heavenly spheres, meeting guard angels, giving them passwords so they let the mystic pass, until he gets to the highest heaven. There, or sometimes in lieu of the heavenly ascent, he enters a huge palace, in the same manner passing guard angels, to another palace, etc, until he reaches the holy of holiest palace, where he gets to participate in the singing of praises to god as he sits on his throne (merkabah means "throne").
http://books.google.com/books?id=GEy...m=10&ct=result

In earlier periods, it seems that there was a certain amount of heavenly palace tripping and heavenly ascending in 2nd century BCE through the 6th century CE, but the "classical" literature is from later. There is an excellent review of the subject in P. Alexander's introduction to his translation of 3 Enoch in Charlesworth's Old Testament Pseudepigrapha vol 1.

Sources:

1 Enoch 14:8-23

8 And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 9 And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. 10 And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. 11 Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. 12 A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. 13 And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. 14 And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face. 15 And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. 16 And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. 17 And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 18 And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. 19 And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 20 And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. 21 None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. 22 The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. 23 And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

1 Enoch 71:5-12

5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens, And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals, And between those crystals tongues of living fire. 6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire, And on its four sides were streams full of living fire, And they girt that house. 7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin: And these are they who sleep not And guard the throne of His glory. 8 And I saw angels who could not be counted, A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand, Encircling that house. And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel, And the holy angels who are above the heavens, Go in and out of that house. 9 And they came forth from that house, And Michael and Gabriel, Raphael and Phanuel, And many holy angels without number. 10 And with them the Head of Days, His head white and pure as wool, And His raiment indescribable. 11 And I fell on my face, And my whole body became relaxed, And my spirit was transfigured; And I cried with a loud voice,... with the spirit of power, And blessed and glorified and extolled. 12 And these blessings which went forth out of my mouth were well pleasing before that Head of Days.

[APOT vol 2]

Testament of Levi 2:6-10

6 And behold the heavens were opened and an angel of God said to me, Levi enter 7 And I entered from the first heaven, and I saw there a great sea hanging. 8 And further I saw a second heaven far brighter and more brilliant, for there was a boundless light also therein. 9 And I said to the angel, Why is this so? And the angel said to me, Marvel not at this, for thou shalt see another heaven more brilliant and incomparable. 10 And when thou hast ascended thither, Thou shalt stand near the Lord, And shalt be His minister, And shalt declare His mysteries to men, And shall proclaim concerning Him that shall redeem Israel.

[APOT vol 2]

Ascension of Isaiah 6:10-17

10And while he was speaking with the Holy Spirit in the hearing of them all, he became silent, and his mind was taken up from him, and he did not see the men who were standing before him. 11His eyes indeed were open, but his mouth was silent, and the mind in his body was taken up from him. 12But his breath was (still) in him, for he was seeing a vision. 13And the angel who was sent to show him (the vision) was not of this firmament, nor was he from the angels of glory of this world, but he came from the seventh heaven. 14And the people who were standing by, apart from the circle of prophets, did [not] think that the holy Isaiah had been taken up. 15And the vision which he saw was not from this world, but from the world which is hidden from the flesh. 16And after Isaiah had seen this vision he recounted it to Hezekiah, and to Josab his son, and to the other prophets who had come. 17But the officials, and the eunuchs, and the people did not hear, apart from Samnas the secretary, and Jehoiakim, and Asaph the recorder, for they (were) doers of righteousness, and the fragrance of the Spirit was in them; but the people did not hear, for Micah and Josab his son had sent them out when the wisdom of this world was taken from him as if he were dead.

[This looks like the translation in Old Testament Pseudepigrapha vol 2]

2 Enoch 1:6-9

6 And I arose from my sleep and saw clearly those two men standing in front of me. 7 And I saluted them and was seized with fear and the appearance of my face was changed from terror, and those men said to me: 8 Have courage, Enoch, do not fear; the eternal God sent us to thee, and lo! thou shalt today ascend with us into heaven, 9 and thou shalt tell your sons and all your household all that they shall do without thee on earth in thy house, and let no one seek thee till the Lord return thee to them.

2 Enoch 3:1

1 It came to pass, when Enoch had told his sons, that the angels took him on to their wings and bore him up on to the first heaven and placed him on the clouds.

2 Enoch 22:1-2

2 On the tenth heaven, which is called Aravoth, I saw the appearance of the Lord's face, like iron made to glow in fire, and brought out, emitting sparks, and it burns. Thus in a moment of eternity I saw the Lord's face, but the Lord's face is ineffable, marvellous and very awful, and very, very terrible. 2 And who am I to tell of the Lord's unspeakable being, and of his very wonderful face? And I cannot tell the quantity of his many instructions, and various voices, the Lord's throne is very great and not made with hands, nor the quantity of those standing round him, troops of cherubim and seraphim, nor their incessant singing,

[APOT vol 2]

Apocalypse of Abraham 19:1-9

1 And a voice came to me out of the midst of the fire, saying, "Abraham, 2.(3.) Abraham!" And I said, "Here I am!" And he said, "Look at the expanses which are under the firmament to which you have now been directed and see that on no single expanse is there any other but the one whom you have searched for 4. or who has loved you." And while he was still speaking, behold, the expanses under me, the heavens, opened and I saw on the seventh firmament upon which I stood a fire spread out and a light and dew and a multitude of angels and a host of the invisible glory, and up above the living creatures I had seen; I saw no one 5. else there, And I looked from on high, where I was standing, downward to the 6. sixth firmament. And I saw there a multitude of spiritual angels, incorporeal, carrying out the orders of the fiery angels who were on the eighth firmament, as 7. I was standing on its elevation. And lo, neither on this firmament was there 8. in any shape any other host, but only the spiritual angels. And the host I saw on 9. the seventh firmament commanded the sixth firmament and it removed itself. I saw there, on the fifth (firmament), host of stars, and the orders they were commanded to carry out, and the elements of earth obeying them.

[This looks like the translation in Old Testament Pseudepigrapha vol 1, although verse numbers seem out of whack]

Have fun!

DCH

Originally Posted by Julio

To me, Jesus used Hashish; staring with the “Temptation” where he said the Devil possessed him four times [to the Temple wall and to a high mountain, and twice back to the desert]. Besides, a group of mendicants like him and his disciples were always involved in some “private affair”, for sure.