Vorkosigan

I cannot for the life of me understand how you can presume to comment on a book you have never read.

Point me to a good one, then.

Vorkosigan

aa5874

There is NO actual evidence or written statement of antiquity anywhere that the Jesus story was UNKNOWN before the Pauline letters were written.

Every source of antiquity that mentioned Paul, and even the Pauline writings, put Paul AFTER the Jesus story was KNOWN and ALREADY BELIEVED.

The Pauline writer PLACED himself AFTER over 500 people who was Visited by Jesus.

The Pauline writer claimed he PERSECUTED the Faith and that there were People in CHRIST and Apostles BEFORE him.

One cannot use the NT Canon to claim Paul was an Heretic and that the Canon blatantly contains doctrine CONTRARY to the very Church which produce the Canon.

Again, there is NO written statement, NO source of antiquity that show any character called Jesus as described by the Pauline writings BEFORE c 70 CE.

It must be understood that the Pauline writer was VISITED by Jesus AFTER it was claimed that Jesus died for OUR SINS and was Resurrected on the THIRD day.

1 Corinthians 15:8 KJV The Epistola Apostolorum

maryhelena

And I'm not claiming to be commenting on a book I've never read..........:huh:
Let me repeat myself - Earl's ideas are freely available on his website...

And keep in mind that it was Earl who started this 'attack' upon my position!!!

Here are two links. The second thread is still 'open' - so if you want to comment on it that's possible. This thread is not about my ideas - it is about Bart Ehrman's new book - so lets not get off track here...


The historical crucifixion of Antigonus as a model for the Jesus crucifixion story

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=290377

Putting Josephus in the Dock

http://www.freeratio.org/showthread.php?t=312405

Vorkosigan

Thanks. It's near midnight here so I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Vorkosigan

outhouse

everything i find showing yeshu, i ssaid to gave been added at a much later date.


while the name in itself so closely tied with yawheh saves does leed to suspicion, it was a common name.

outhouse

its not just luke 23;2


"They began to accuse him, saying, "We found this man perverting the nation, forbidding paying taxes to Caesar, and saying that he himself is Christ, a king." - Luke 23:2


matthew 17-25-27

he states

the subjects are exempt


only foreigners should pay


luke 15-1 "all" tax collectors came to listen to him




he wasnt preaching to them to take more money



perverting the nation is what it amounts to. going back to luke 23;2




again this was all softened up by the roman authors and ignored by paul alltogether.

no matter how you slice it jews hated romans and their taxation, and a poor peasant jew from Galilee would have hated romans and taxation. I think jesus was smart enough to be a different kind of zealot and try and beat the romans at their own game. he failed and was still killed.






during jesus childhood there was a tax war
jesus is questioned about paying taxes a few days before his death
jesus calls the temple/bank "thieves" and tosses the bank tellers money over
jesus is called a tax evader and perverting the nation
jesus is put on a cross
there is another tax war and the temple falls shortly after his death.


the temple incident is what gets jesus killed, starting a riot or disturbance during the huge payday event going on while tensions were high would get you killed without a trial.


preachers were a dime a dozen and would not get you killed for preaching about yahweh

messing with roman currency would get you killed instantly

why would poor people rememeber him, he was a martyr, and the roman authors glossed over all the anti roman material when they stole the religion

stephan huller

everything i find showing yeshu, i ssaid to gave been added at a much later date.

But are you suggesting by implication that rabbinic judaism itself was only created by the time of our earliest texts? that's a mountainman argument. yeshu originally appeared in the Talmud and thus in its sources

aa5874

You have "TAMPERED" with or is Concealing the EVIDENCE . Your story does NOT reflect the CHAIN of events in any of the Gospels.

You have REMOVED or IGNORED parts of the Jesus story and have INSERTED what you have INVENTED from Imagination.

You are presenting MIS-LEADING information.

In gJohn, the Temple incident happened at least TWO years BEFORE Jesus was crucified and had NOTHING whatsoever to do with TAX evasion.

spin

More unfresh fish. Talmuds is perdy late, so's sources needn't go back far. You gotta hope them rabbis that talks about him in them Talmuds themselves provides a dating mechanismus, just as the rabbis what are called rabbis help to date when they first got called rabbis. Ain't no-one called rabbi before the second century. So who talks about Yeshu?? That may help givussa date.

outhouse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)



However in references to Jesus in the Talmud, where the name occurs, it is rendered Yeshu, which is a name reserved in Aramaic and Hebrew literature from the early medieval period until today, solely for Jesus of Nazareth, not for other Joshuas. However some scholars, such as Maier (1978) regard the two named "Yeshu" texts in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a and 107b) to be later amendments, and not original.[33]