Walrus

Not at all, especially if by Christianity you are referring to the followers of Christ. I don't think I was implying anything, I think I was pretty clear in what I said. Since you don't think I was, I'll clarify. In my opinion, the original post did not sound like an objective search for truth concerning the Bible, it sounded like a bogus attempt to take an arbitrary practice of another belief system, and use it to give the impression that the Bible was lacking. There is no logical reason to expect another belief system's practices to be included in the Bible, as it isn't an encyclopedia of "spiritual" practices around the world. If you were a Buddhist, talking to other Buddhists, it might make sense to make an issue of it, but in such a case, you probably wouldn't care what the Bible said, anyway. If the New Testament did mention this "Noble Silence", would you suddenly become a Christian? Would it lead you closer to accepting the Bible as true? If you answered no to these two questions, what is the point to this thread?

Doug Shaver

OK. My bad.

Walrus

I appreciate the explanation. Knowing where he is coming from does explain the motivation for the OP.

Walrus

So much to nitpick here, but I'll stick to the obvious. The NT was not written "for the Greeks". It didn't exclude them, but as a whole it was not aimed at them. This is self-evident even if you only look at the book titles, such as "Romans", "Ephesians", "Hebrews", etc.

mountainman

If the New Testament mentioned "Noble Silence" (or Vegetarianism or avoidance of intoxicants or the Transmigration of the Soul, etc) then I would be far more inclined to view the New Testament as a work which addressed the religious / philosophical / metaphysical ideas which were commonly accepted among the Greek speaking academics of the Roman empire and which they themselves wrote about.

But Jesus is not presented as ever practicing the Noble Silence of the Greek philosophers (or Buddha). He is presented as gnawing on the bones of dead animals as if vegetarianism was never an issue, and he is presented as knocking back wine after wine in public bars. This is not a religious figure, in the sense of what it meant to be religious to the learned Greek speaking academics of the 1st century Roman empire. In fact, it is more like a farce of these religious / philosophical / metaphysical precepts, for example, as espoused in Philostatus' "Life of Apollonius of Tyana".

The Bible was first widely published by the fascist warlord and military supremacist Constantine. Would you "trust" any propaganda published by Hitler or Pol Pot? I wouldn't, for good reasons. You are free to do what you please.

mountainman

The NT appears to be addressed to the "Gentiles" in the Greek language- the word gentiles is used almost 100 times in the NT. However some of these references --- in the Greek text ---- refer to "Hellenes" explicitly, but have been translated as "gentiles" in the English.

It seems that "gentile" (via Ἕλλην = Hellenes) in the NT is used sparingly, but it appears to be explicity used, whereas the "gentile" (via "Ethnos) is used in the NT and OT relatively extensively.

KJV Strong's G1672 matches the Greek Ἕλλην (Hellēn).

(Gentile*) AND G1672
occurs in 6 verses in the KJV

Jhn 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

1Cr 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

As far as I am aware, the word gentiles in the above verses represents explicit references to the Hellenes - ie: the Greek speaking people of the Roman empire.

mountainman

But this is incorrect. The nation of the Hellenes, made famous under the expansion of Alexander the great, was the greatest nation within the Roman empire, and its civilisation was embraced by the Romans and their emperors for the entire period between Julius Caesar and Diocletian (ie: 55 BCE to 305 CE) The NT was authored and then published in Greek as an address to this "nation" and it is quite reasonable to equate the "New Testament Gentiles" (not the LXX "gentiles") with the Hellenes.

Explicit refences to the Hellenes in the Greek New Testament

Jhn 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Hellenes, and teach the Hellenes?

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Hellenes;

Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Hellenes:

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Hellenes, that they are all under sin;

1Cr 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Hellenes, nor to the church of God:

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Hellenes, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Considering the ultimate destruction of the Greek civilisation at the hands of the new and strange christian state, it appears arguable that the NT was written as a political manifesto (perhaps under Constantine) against the religions / philosophies / metaphysics of the Greek civilisation. It took the educated world more than a thousand years to recover the knowledge of the Greek civilisation, which represents the basis of all modern conceptions of science, mathematics, philosophy and medicine.