Derec

Or at least that's what Paul seems to have thought.

Hebrews 6: 4-6
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Unfortunately it does not apply to me but ex-xians here could use it as an anti-evangelism shield (to borrow from a Pauline metaphor.)

Am I reading this verse correctrly though? Any alternative interpretation?

UMoC

Herakles

I'm not really familiar with this stuff, but I've heard that Presbyterians and some Pentacostals believe that once you've been saved you can never become "unsaved". But of course they can always claim that you were never saved in the first place. I am not exactly sure what scripture they base that on though.

Solsticin

The Bible doesn't make any sense man, stop trying! I studied it for years (sadly) and I'm telling you, it's just worse in other languages (though the Old Testament is more interesting!)

I think Paul was aluding to the unforgivable sin (most 'newer' Xtian denominations tend to buy into this, ie. Southern Baptists) which is denying the Holy Spirit (meaning, hearing the 'call' but not accepting Jesus ...he won't ask twice, or he might ... it's unclear ...again, damned book <grin>).

There are other interpretations you can get from it though, and I think most other denomoinations will go for the "preaching-not-professing" angle. Essentially, you weren't saved, but you were hanging out with Xtians and sharing in their gifts and acting like one (or even not, but just taking advantage of them). You denied god/Jesus (see the paragraph before) and there are consequenses.

Then again, I think they are ALL universally making exuses for the fact that the Bible is clearly unclear about the once-saved-always-saved paradim. It's just not clear no matter how much you study. In fact, it's just down right confusing even how you GET saved if you read much. So what I'm trying to say is ...just don't read it!! PUT IT DOWN!! Use it for kindking! The thin pages make good rolling papers or ass wipes on camping trips (trust me on the last one, it was a dare).

EDIT: This seemed like a good explaination (note, there simply is no explaining this book, but here ya go ..) http://www.leaderu.com/isot/docs/heb2.html

Lanakila

It's just this contradiction that helped lead me down the path towards unbelief. There are scriptures that teach once saved always saved, which is the P in the Tulip of the doctrine of Calvinism. But there are other scriptures that teach that you must remain true the the gospel and Jesus to remain saved. That is Arminian belief. I tried to reconcile the two for the last few years, and that is when I got into trouble. The book of Hebrews author is unknown by the way. Many believe that Paul wrote it, but the author doesn't give away his/her identity. It is in that book that you get the Warning Passages against Apostacy. The Bible is a confusing book, and you have to have the inside track to believe any of it. I did for along time. The fact that there are so many gosh darned contradictions killed my faith.

There is a contradiction between how one is saved in the first place too. That is why Christianity is divided. Is it by faith or works? If you receive it by faith, is is kept by works? The scriptures are contradictory on this. Now you know why there are so many different denominations of Christianity.

Cofffee

This is an interesting topic. The following related passages come to mind - Jesus speaking (KJV):

Matt. 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matt. 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

I've heard that some Christian denominations claim that this is the "unpardonable sin". I think it would be funny to have a Christian trying to convert you and all you have to say is:

"Oh, don't waste your time... I've already committed the unpardonable sin and can't possibly be saved anymore!"

Not all Christians believe this, and I've heard it explained to mean that it is unpardonable as long as you don't believe and then is re-pardonable once you believe again... sounds like a pretty hokey explanation to me.

Magus55

Hebrews was written to the Hebrews, not the Gentiles. This is referring to those Jews who claimed to be saved by grace, but returned back to trying to follow the law to gain salvation. After experiencing grace, you can't return back to the law.

It has nothing to do with Gentile Christians.

Godless Wonder

Perhaps I'm just playing the Crazy Interpretation Game, but I can easily read that to mean that Paul had just empirically discovered that trying to talk people who had once believed but who no longer did into believing once again was "impossible", meaning, very very difficult and he had not had any success. Translating it to modern conversational English: "Once a Christian becomes a nonbeliever, you can't bring 'em back, they just won't buy it, heck most of them even make fun of us 'jebus believers`"

Solsticin

You know, quite honestly, it you dump the whole Old Testament, and anything Paul ever said the Bible isn't too bad really. I mean, it would still not be "for me" but at least the hate is, for the most part, gone. Jesus was a pretty OK guy for the most part.

Personally, I think Paul just made shit up. I mean, most of what he says in to Corinth and the other churches is really hard to back up hehe. I think he was making a powerplay to take Jesus' place.

Herakles

Scriptures that seem to support eternal salvation:

1 John 5
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

John 10:28
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Romans 8:1

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Scriptures that say you can lose your salvation:

2 Timothy 2
5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

Hebrews 6:4-6

Herakles

So if you happened to be a gentile, and you became "unsaved", you could become "resaved", but if you were a jew and you became "unsaved" you could not become "resaved"? I think we can all agree that salvation is the most important concept in the NT. So why would God base it on race? Or for that matter why would he care about race? After all, aren't we all made in "God's image"?