Catholic Convert

Hello.

I've been a Catholic for ten years, and raised my two sons that way, but unfortunately my 17 year old desires to leave the Church and and not only questions Catholicism, but the existence of God.

I can think of times in my life, even before finding religion, when I had doubts about God, but never a disbelief.

Just would like to know from some who do not believe in God, why they do not, and what would change their mind.

Do you see God's existence as an impossibilty or something for which there could never be sufficient proof?

Do you have any problem with the idea that things exist? To me, if I were an athiest, I would have trouble with why there is something instead of nothing. Of course from a believer's perspective it is hard to comprehend how a God could be "always."

Do you fear death and the idea that you will lose your consciousness, or do you see some alternative or some other way to "live on," than the Christian principle of an eternal soul and an eventual resurrected body?

TySixtus

I was a catholic for twenty years.

Let me ask you a question, if I may.

Do you believe in transsubstantiation? This is the idea whereby the communion and wine are turned into the the actual body and blood of Christ. This is not metaphorical, this is literal. Every Sunday, you engage in ritualistic cannabalism.

Realizing the abject silliness of the the above is one of the reasons I became an atheist. I realized all religions have the same level of absurdity in them. Perhaps your son is beginning to realize this, as well? I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you profess to believe that you eat flesh and drink blood (magically made flesh and blood, by the way) then perhaps your son has a right to be skeptical.

Ty

JCS

People assert that there is a god, why is that? I have seen nothing that would make me state such a claim, unless you count repeating what people tried to get me to believe.


Impossible, no, improbable, yes. Sufficent proof? How about any at all, that would be a start.


Well you asked and answered that one all by yourself.

Death is nothing more than dreamless sleep, ever been under general anaesthesia, pretty much the same minus the recovery room. Besides the Christian fantasy concering life after death is repugnant.

Avatar

The reasons and ideas that we all have are as varied as we ourselves are.

It would take something pretty extraordinary to change my mind...there would have to be no room for doubt. As for why...religion makes a lot of claims...all of them wrong. Science makes a lot of claims and far more often gets them right. Religious belief and dogma is completely arbitrary. One and one will always equal two.

Pretty much. Like I said, it would have to be something absolutely inexplicable any other way to convince me.

Do you have any problem with the idea that things exist? To me, if I were an athiest, I would have trouble with why there is something instead of nothing. Of course from a believer's perspective it is hard to comprehend how a God could be "always."

Why would I have a problem with it. Things exist. We exist. It is not proof of anything divine.

Some of us are certain that we simply cease to exist. Others hope there is an afterlife. I hope, but I have no way of knowing for sure. To an athiest, "I don't know" is an acceptable answer. I have yet to hear that as an acceptable answer in religion.

To me it is rediculous to accept the word of a book just because it says so. Even more so to assume that any one faith (or branch thereof) has the ONE AND ONLY possible interpetation of that book. Particularly since that book's contents are open to all manner of possible interpetations. In the end, all you have in opinion...and the opinion of your priest. In science, it doesn't matter what your opinion is. Facts and evidence determine the interpetation, not the arbitrary claims of someone who may or may not have your best interests at heart.

Chris Weimer

Because if no one questioned their traditions, we'd all still be sitting in caves dousing all fires that might arise.

Every generation questions the previous generation.

jastity

Welcome to the boards by the way.

Seeing an alternative to "fizzing out" with the end of life is not the same as there being an alternative. Wanting something does not make it so. Speaking for myself I can see that I have a limited time, not the endless future that one sees in youth. And it is up to me to do with that time what I can as I won't get another chance.

Assuming your son shares my views, does that make atheism a negative and hopeless position for him to take? I would argue certainly not, what we have is real and immediate and wonderful. We are lucky to be here.

Vagus

Welcome aboard.

I was raised Catholic, 12 years of Catholic education, alter boy, went through all the rituals etc.

For me the transition away started around the age of 10 - 12 when I wasn't able to get any kind of satifying answer to my questions from our priest. He had given a sermon on how God was the creator of all an how everything in the Universe had an origin. The answer to my query on why could'nt God have been created was met with, initially, silence and then a letter to my parents on how I was asking impertinent questions!. My father, being a scientist (geologist) and all-round good guy, told the priest to pull his head in & for me to keep looking for my own answers.

From there my eventual disgust with the widening of the gap between the Church's teachings & its actions, combined with the damage some of its policies have caused and are still causing, made me examine and eventually discard so much of the faith that I was raised with that one day I realised that whatever I had become I was in no way willing to be associated with the Catholic Church.

The most important thing was, I was able to go my own way, had my parents force me to remain with the Church I doubt I would have the great relationship with them that I do today.

I can't say that I fear death, recognising it as part of the natural way of the world. Not that I am rushing to meet it or that I would'nt like some say in how I finally check out, for instance there are some forms of death that I'd rather not endure. My question to you would be: where was our consciousness before we were born & if it developed in this world why should any of it pass on to some other realm/plane when we die?

Amanda Hugginkiss

I understand the concern you must have for your son, and you're a wise person to seek out information in order to better understand him.

But please don't worry; wouldn't you rather that your son believes what he does because he has carefully considered and truly believes it, rather than simply because someone told him to believe it? If he followed the latter behavior, he could be influenced by all manner of unseemly folks. However, if he has been raised in a moral and healthy environment, then he will likely become a moral and healthy adult, who may simply figure out that his belief system differs from your own (or who may decide that he agrees with you after all).

In answer to your questions, I and many others simply see no more reason to believe in gods than we see to believe in invisible pink unicorns. Religion is, for the most part, only an issue in our lives because other people make it an issue. Obviously "things exist", unless maybe you want to get really philosophical, which I simply don't have the patience for And finally, death itself is not nearly as scary as the things that come with it (for all of us: what kind of legacy have I left? will my family be alright without me? etc). Sure, it's fun to think about what could happen after death, and what we would like to believe happens, but that's different from actually believing it. I'd like to believe I'll get a new Jaguar for my next birthday, but I'm not holding my breath!

Anyway, welcome, and congrats again on your efforts to understand your son. His age is a difficult one, and I'm sure he can use all the support he can get, especially from you.

sourdough

I suppose its like faling asleep,whats to fear about that?
one time I thought reincarnation might be cool but then I read this
and realized its just a wishfull thinking.
and death of the body is the end,no souls,no afterlife,if anything it makes living so much more meanigfull and special wouldnt you say?

muTron the homeless

As a fellow newbie: I also bid you welcome. I can imagine your stress about your son. I remember when I deconverted from a practising Xian (I was Missouri Synode Lutheran which is as close to Catholic as you can get minus Orthodox Xians) and Many told me my daughter would go to hell if I did not have her baptized. I love my daughter more than anything in this world but my rational convictions told me not to do this. Talk about a mental role of the dice. That's what it seemed like at the time. (I have a son who has been baptized earlier. He is older but that is another story.) Anyways for what it is worth I sympathize with your plight.

I am no longer a Christian due to doctrines I could no longer rationally hold onto. These include Original sin, Eternal torment, ethical issues (homosexuality in specific), and stuff like what happens to those who have not heard the gospel...etc. What would change my mind? I would need a Pauline experience similar to what happened on the road to Damascus in the book of Acts. Having said that I am open to any new evidence that could persuade me.

Not me. I am a weak atheist. Closer to an agnostic. I want to believe. I just can't seem to find a reason to hold onto that belief. There seem to be many reasons not to believe. I will grant that at times belief seems rational as well. Didn't C.S. Lewis say that when he was an atheist theism seemed at times very convincing. And conversely after he had converted to theism that there were many times when atheism seemed like a very viable alternative.

Not sure what you mean except I agree it is difficult to conceive that God is "always".

Yes I fear death if I am honest about it. I like living. I like learning. I love my family. I love making music. But I cannot let my fear of death make me into something I am not. I see no other alternative to live onwards after my demise. i just have to carry the torch and go on the best I can.

I hope this is helpful and not distressful.