Toto

This book?

The Gospels: Their origin and their growth (or via: amazon.co.uk)

Google books

stephan huller

What does any of this have to do with Saul and Paul?

stephan huller

On my contention that 'Saul' was invented from 1 Samuel (or '1 Kings' as the early Fathers called it - there are four books of Kings in the LXX) - notice Tertullian (a) hints of the Marcionite rejection of the story and (b) its basis in the account of David:

The original account here comes from Irenaeus. Notice the common theme about the Marcionites (or one of their sects) having to 'deny Paul is an apostle'?

Duvduv

Academic discussion of Marcion is not described as "exegesis." Academics regular talk about Marcion and what he allegedly believed as if it were common knowledge based on actual writings commonly known to have been written by him.

Yet they do not adequately deal with the actual facts - that nothing remains of anything Marcion actually wrote or what texts he believed in. And even AA's pal and client Justin (who allegdly lived in the same town and at the same time as Marcion) doesn't mention a word about any texts Marcion possessed or wrote, including any "gospels" or epistles of "Paul."

aa5874

If Marcion wrote NOTHING when Justin was alive why would he mention texts of Marcion??

Justin claimed Marcion was PREACHING and TEACHING men to deny that God was the Creator and was preaching and teaching ANOTHER Son.

If someone wrote about Joseph Smith BEFORE he wrote his Bible then it must be obvious that NOTHING would be known of Joseph Smith's Bible in the said writing.

Why do you PRESUME Justin should have known what Marcion composed if he wrote nothing or wrote AFTER the writings of Justin???

First ApologyNow, Hippolytus and Ephraim the Syrian CONTRADICT "Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian.

And further, "Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian was UNKNOWN and UNATTESTED for hundreds of years.

Not even Eusebius and Jerome were aware of the LARGEST Work "Against Marcion" attributed to Tertullian.

Eusbius mentioned about NINE writings "Against Marcion" but NONE from Tertullian.

Eusebius mentioned writings authored by Tertullian but NONE was titled "Against Marcion".

But most remarkably, Jerome made a most STARTLING statement---Tertullian wrote AGAINST the Church and Apollonius.

De Viris Illustribus 53 Tertullian's "Against Marcion" is highly questionable even the author claimed that there were forgeries or manipulated writings under his NAME.

See "Against Marcion" 1--there are Forgeries and Manipulated writings under the Name of Tertullian.

outhouse

Marcion was looked down upon by he majority of different movements going on, in that time. he would have been basically ignored or frowned upon. And that is exactly what we see, with "shame on Marcions eraser"


the different movements had different material viewed as primary, depending on the community early followers belonged to.

Nothing was cananized until after 325 CE before that it was a free for all, with Marcion being noted for his poor attempt at collecting what he thought was important to his own personal theology.

Duvduv

It's kind of funny how selective you are with your use of "credible sources." You adore Justin but reject others, and you have no evidence that either text was actually written by the person who is believed (underline the word believed) to have written it......whether Tertullian, Justin or King Kong.

In any case I was asking a contextual and rhetorical question that you didn't get. OBVIOUSLY, if an alleged Justin lived in the same time and city as Marcion (or King Kong) who had epistles or a gospel, one should expect this Justin to say SOMETHING about them.

Marcion was a bogeyman for the propagandists. He may have existed or not, but he served their purpose.
It's kind of like Al Qaida. For over ten years we have been told about an international network called Al Qaida with its alleged leaders who only appear on videos and audio tapes. No offices. No locations. No meetings. No rallies. No documents. No army or force of any kind. Nothing except videos. And yet we are constantly told about Al Qaida, and how every guy who is killed by drone, usually under the age of 30 is yet another "major leader" of Al Qaida.

outhouse

thats funny, I didnt mention him

only gave a reason why he would have ignored and frowned on Marcion.



this is your mistake

there was no gospel or anything canonized then.

we know there were other scriptures then that no longer exist as well.


differnt early communities may have only had one scripture in oral trdaition they followed, some used more then one source as they added to theri personal collections based on their own personal theology


the movement was not static, and did not evolve evenly across the roman empire

Duvduv

I was addressing AA not you, and forgot to add his name..........

Toto

What is your source for this claim? How do you know that Marcion was looked down on, rather than envied for his greater wealth and learning?


Same question. Why was it a poor attempt, rather than seminal? Why is Marcion's collection a "personal" theology, but others not personal?