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Old 05-19-2004, 02:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Darth Dane
So, based on this, you believe flowers can't perceive?
<groan> This is too absurd to even continue discussing...
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I was asking you a question, not implying.

What use is it for you if cannot remember you took a rollercoaster ride? Who experienced it?
Use? What do you mean by "use"? If you mean "Is it useful with respect to cooking eggs if you don't remember having taken a rollercoaster ride?" then clearly the answer is no. But if you mean "Is it useful with respect to answering questions about how many times you have gone on rollercoasters" then clearly the answer is yes.
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Is an experience yours if you do not perceive it or are not conscious about it?
Let's not into temporal identity games. They are tedious in the extreme...
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When you sleep, who sleeps? You don't know because your were unconscious right?
Your question answers itself, though I bolded the relevant word...
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Is it possible to be aware you are sleeping?
Yeah, sure -- I've realized that I am dreaming in the middle of dreams. It's a little weird, but not too uncommon.
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When you dream, who dreams? Are you aware that you are dreaming, or do you just dream?
See above.
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If you don't know your self fully, you cannot know who knows the world
Repitition does not make it clearer, or true.
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Whatever attributes you give it, it is and remains a BELIEF

You believe your are rational, you believe you are justified, you believe your beliefs

Is this knowledge?
If a belief is rationally justified (fully rationally justified), then the only way it can be false is if the universe is insane.

This definition of knowledge accords well with what people mean when they use the word. Other definitions of knowledge either collapse into gibberish or don't correspond to the typical use of the word.
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:57 PM   #32
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LOL, maybe maybe not, I don't know, I can offer you beliefs, but I have a feeling you don't wan't belief but fact
Now why would you say a thing like that?
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:05 PM   #33
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If a belief is rationally justified (fully rationally justified), then the only way it can be false is if the universe is insane.
What makes one belief rational and another not?

This seems as an important question, hmmm....

Well?
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:54 PM   #34
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If a belief is rationally justified (fully rationally justified), then the only way it can be false is if the universe is insane.

What do you mean "fully"?

Is this the smell of the scotsman?
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Old 05-19-2004, 07:46 PM   #35
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Sorry...happy hour turned into happy evening...

If you don't mind I am going to transfer this discussion to the thread in Philosophy.
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Old 05-25-2004, 06:44 AM   #36
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Hio Jade, do you plan on answering this?



What do you mean "fully"?

Is this the smell of the scotsman?



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DD
To know yourself, you have to be conscious of everything you have ever experienced.
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Jade

False. Blatantly false (unless you mean by "know yourself" something other than "know stuff about yourself"). I know I have a headache right now -- I don't have to remember my birth to know this.

That wasn't the point. The fact that you know you have a headache, doesn't explain who it is that has the headache.

I am having a headache....who is the 'I Am'?

To know who has the headache, one has to be fully conscious




It also puts a spin on the:

Accept/love me for who I am

expression


Sure, but who are you, do you know who it is that I should Love?

If you don't know who it is, how should I?
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:30 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Darth Dane
Hio Jade, do you plan on answering this?

What do you mean "fully"?

Is this the smell of the scotsman?
A fully rational justification rests on and stems from a firm solution to the regress problem in epistemology, with no irrational or weakly justified steps between that foundation and the justification in question.
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That wasn't the point. The fact that YOU know YOU have a headache, doesn't explain who it is that has the headache.

I am having a headache....who is the 'I Am'?

To know who has the headache, one has to be fully conscious
Repitition does not make it clearer or more true.
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:40 AM   #38
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Jade I think we are speaking past eachother
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:44 AM   #39
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Let me ask another way. Jade are you fully conscious?

If the answer is no, then you do not know who it is that has the headache?

The headache is still experienced, but if a person is only partly conscious then you(in part, not fully consciously you) do not know who(in totality, fully conscious) it is that has the headache, you will know you(in part) that has the headache
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:05 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Darth Dane
Let me ask another way. Jade are you fully conscious?

If the answer is no, then you do not know who it is that has the headache?

The headache is still experienced, but if a person is only partly conscious then you(in part, not fully consciously you) do not know who(in totality, fully conscious) it is that has the headache, you will know you(in part) that has the headache
I am conscious of a consciousness. I call that consciousness "Me". When I had the headache, I was conscious of having the headache -- the feeling or qualia of the headache existed within the field of the consciousness I call "Me".

The only thing I can imagine that you are trying to say is that maybe I am mistaken in thinking that the consciousness I experience is "Me", but frankly I have no idea what that means, and it sounds like an absurd violation of the Law of Identity (Myself is not Myself, A is not A).
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