Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 09-24-2012, 01:48 PM

http://www.loc.gov/preservation/outr...ext.htmlMonday, November 19, 2012

Location: Library of Congress, James Madison Memorial Building, 101

Independence Avenue, Mumford Room 2:00 PM - 4:00 PM, Sixth Floor

Webcast: If you would like to participate via live webcast, send an email at least three days prior to the event to Ray Privott. The number of live webcast “seats” is also limited and will be filled in the order in which the requests are received.

About the Lecture:

Father Justin, the librarian of St. Catherine's Monastery, and Michael B. Toth, the Sinai Palimpsest Project Program Manager, discuss how advanced spectral imaging is revealing ancient texts in the remote library of a Greek Orthodox monastery in Egypt's Sinai desert. The monastery has a very important collection of manuscripts, the earliest dating from the fourth century. Because writing materials were sometimes scarce, the library contains many palimpsests -- manuscripts where the original text was erased, and the valuable parchment used a second time. The faint original texts can often be recovered through the use of spectral imaging.

Scientists, scholars, and technical experts are working in close collaboration with Archbishop Damianos and the monks to spectrally image significant manuscripts from the monastery's rich collection of palimpsests. The system is similar to the one used by the Library of Congress Preservation Division for the past five years to study America's Top Treasures and other manuscripts. This five year program is conducted under the auspices of the nonprofit Early Manuscripts Electronic Library (EMEL), and sponsored by the UK-based Arcadia Foundation.
Speakers:

Father Justin Sinaites and Michael B. Toth

Fr. Justin Sinaites is the Librarian of the Sacred and Imperial Monastery of the God-Trodden Mount of Sinai. The Library contains some 3,300 manuscripts, 8,000 early printed books and an important archive containing letters, account books, charters, and other documents.

Michael B. Toth, president of R.B. Toth Associates, brings over 25 years of experience with systems integration, program management and strategic planning to support museums and libraries as they capitalize on advances in information and digital imaging technology.

Toto · 09-24-2012, 07:33 PM

Here's an article: What lies beneath: Sinai’s hidden texts

Quote:

The Greek Orthodox monks of St Catherine’s monastery in Sinai have been accumulating manuscripts and books since the sixth century, making their library the world’s greatest repository of early medieval writing after the Vatican. The collection is even richer than it first appears, because many of the 3,300 ancient manuscripts contain hidden text and illustrations older than their visible contents – and a large scientific effort is under way to reveal and record them.

The concealed texts are in palimpsests, manuscripts on which the original writing was erased so that scribes could reuse the precious parchment. Faint signs of the original text remain, as traces of pigment or indentation, which can be enhanced visually through modern techniques of spectral imaging at different wavelengths.

. . .

Many of the erased texts are in Christian Palestinian Aramaic, a language used between the third and eighth centuries, which then died out. “These texts were erased because they were in a dead language for which the medieval scribes had no use,” Phelps says. “We can help to recover its voice.”

This seems more intriguing than a reference in Coptic to Jesus' wife.

stephan huller · 09-24-2012, 09:49 PM

I can't even imagine what a third century Christian Palestinian Aramaic text would look like.

Toto · 09-24-2012, 10:06 PM

There is The Catechism of Jersualem in the Christian Palestinian Aramaic Version (Corpus of Christian Palestinian Aramaic) (or via: amazon.co.uk) which was recovered by a similar process. You can preview it on google books.

Roger Pearse · 09-25-2012, 01:32 AM

There is also a text in an otherwise unknown dead language, which has been deciphered and comes from the Caucasus region.

Clivedurdle · 09-25-2012, 01:40 AM

http://www.archimedespalimpsest.org

Quote:

Welcome. The subject of this website is a manuscript of extraordinary importance to the history of science, the Archimedes Palimpsest. This thirteenth century prayer book contains erased texts that were written several centuries earlier still. These erased texts include two treatises by Archimedes that can be found nowhere else, The Method and Stomachion. ...

stephan huller · 09-25-2012, 09:52 AM

Just got off the phone with Michael Toth. He is getting on a plane to go down to St Catherines right now. Apparently the hidden texts are in seven languages - CPA, Syriac, Latin, Greek, Arabic, Greek and something else. When the text is familiar - i.e. a gospel etc - it is easy to identify. They know they have the Gospel of Matthew, Luke under some of the material. When the text is unknown it is more difficult to tell.

They are going to start the process in earnest this autumn (isn't that right now?). By the presentation in November they should have an idea. There are a number of scholars who are going down there. He mentioned Claudia Rapp who I mentioned I correspond with on a monthly basis. This is a serious effort to figure out the texts. It sounds like they have one representative who can read the seven languages present.

I mentioned going to the Jerusalem Patriarchate. He said if I had contacts he would start working on doing the same work over there (why can't I find a way to make money on this as a middle man? Too Christian now for that). He confirmed that Morton Smith's general supposition about a shortage of paper leading to Mar Saba 65 is plausible given the evidence he has seen at the various monasteries. Also gave the example of Livingston's diaries.

Clivedurdle · 09-25-2012, 01:33 PM

I recently read a comment that one of the major effects of the Arab conquests was a major shortage of Papyrus.

stephan huller · 09-25-2012, 01:36 PM

That's interesting. Wasn't aware of that.

Roger Pearse · 09-25-2012, 03:45 PM

I wonder how we know?

09-24-2012, 01:48 PM	#1
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Spectral Imaging at the Library of St. Catherine's Monastery Reveals Ancient Texts http://www.loc.gov/preservation/outr...ext.htmlMonday, November 19, 2012 Location: Library of Congress, James Madison Memorial Building, 101 Independence Avenue, Mumford Room 2:00 PM - 4:00 PM, Sixth Floor Webcast: If you would like to participate via live webcast, send an email at least three days prior to the event to Ray Privott. The number of live webcast “seats” is also limited and will be filled in the order in which the requests are received. About the Lecture: Father Justin, the librarian of St. Catherine's Monastery, and Michael B. Toth, the Sinai Palimpsest Project Program Manager, discuss how advanced spectral imaging is revealing ancient texts in the remote library of a Greek Orthodox monastery in Egypt's Sinai desert. The monastery has a very important collection of manuscripts, the earliest dating from the fourth century. Because writing materials were sometimes scarce, the library contains many palimpsests -- manuscripts where the original text was erased, and the valuable parchment used a second time. The faint original texts can often be recovered through the use of spectral imaging. Scientists, scholars, and technical experts are working in close collaboration with Archbishop Damianos and the monks to spectrally image significant manuscripts from the monastery's rich collection of palimpsests. The system is similar to the one used by the Library of Congress Preservation Division for the past five years to study America's Top Treasures and other manuscripts. This five year program is conducted under the auspices of the nonprofit Early Manuscripts Electronic Library (EMEL), and sponsored by the UK-based Arcadia Foundation. Speakers: Father Justin Sinaites and Michael B. Toth Fr. Justin Sinaites is the Librarian of the Sacred and Imperial Monastery of the God-Trodden Mount of Sinai. The Library contains some 3,300 manuscripts, 8,000 early printed books and an important archive containing letters, account books, charters, and other documents. Michael B. Toth, president of R.B. Toth Associates, brings over 25 years of experience with systems integration, program management and strategic planning to support museums and libraries as they capitalize on advances in information and digital imaging technology.

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09-24-2012, 09:49 PM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	I can't even imagine what a third century Christian Palestinian Aramaic text would look like.

09-24-2012, 10:06 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There is The Catechism of Jersualem in the Christian Palestinian Aramaic Version (Corpus of Christian Palestinian Aramaic) (or via: amazon.co.uk) which was recovered by a similar process. You can preview it on google books.

09-25-2012, 01:32 AM	#5
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	There is also a text in an otherwise unknown dead language, which has been deciphered and comes from the Caucasus region.

09-25-2012, 09:52 AM	#7
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Just got off the phone with Michael Toth. He is getting on a plane to go down to St Catherines right now. Apparently the hidden texts are in seven languages - CPA, Syriac, Latin, Greek, Arabic, Greek and something else. When the text is familiar - i.e. a gospel etc - it is easy to identify. They know they have the Gospel of Matthew, Luke under some of the material. When the text is unknown it is more difficult to tell. They are going to start the process in earnest this autumn (isn't that right now?). By the presentation in November they should have an idea. There are a number of scholars who are going down there. He mentioned Claudia Rapp who I mentioned I correspond with on a monthly basis. This is a serious effort to figure out the texts. It sounds like they have one representative who can read the seven languages present. I mentioned going to the Jerusalem Patriarchate. He said if I had contacts he would start working on doing the same work over there (why can't I find a way to make money on this as a middle man? Too Christian now for that). He confirmed that Morton Smith's general supposition about a shortage of paper leading to Mar Saba 65 is plausible given the evidence he has seen at the various monasteries. Also gave the example of Livingston's diaries.

09-25-2012, 01:33 PM	#8
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	I recently read a comment that one of the major effects of the Arab conquests was a major shortage of Papyrus.

09-25-2012, 01:36 PM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	That's interesting. Wasn't aware of that.

09-25-2012, 03:45 PM	#10
Roger Pearse Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 4,370	I wonder how we know?

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